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Well, this has definitely gotten interesting. I applaud the verbal swordplay so far folks. However, as this is simply a friendly sparing match here, I suggest we put caps on the sharp ends.
Moejoe, my those values which I spoke of are the ones that I've derived from the reading that volatile piece of paper called the Constitution of the United States. There is a lot of crap in history books, there is a lot of heresay out there, and a lot of just plain false information. I'm talking form reading the constitution.
Now, Astra's comment I believe had to do with the fact that every time he tried to put out an idea he was personally attacked (something that a few of us have been trying to avoid). I've been trying to argue ideas, not people here.
America's actions in the past 20yrs (I'm not ignoring anything prior to this, but directly replying to the immediate history of current conflicts) worldwide have been deplorable, the government has lied, cheated, and stolen. We aren't denying this. We've been trying to change things internally to make them more open and make the government more accountable to the people who elect the people that best represent us.
I personally would love to see the world which you are talking about, but I don't believe it can happen. It is impossible to sit everyone down to have a discussion about what we want in the world. Someone will always be under-represented or left out. You can't rely in "responsible leaders" to make everything right for the world, because these people have not and never will exist.
We have countries so that people of like mind can be together, let the other people be together, and generally work towards their own interests. Its when people try to have a discussion like this that someone makes a personal attack, someone gets offended, and then conflict breaks out, wars start.
Now, I will say that there has not been a soldier that doesn't come home from war, having shot people, that have not second guessed every action they took. There is serious mental and emotional trauma associated with this (Pshrynk can better explain that), and its not something to be taken lightly. Only in movies have I seen "The heartless, mindless soldier". Happy_Terd could definitely talk about this, but I think hes staying out of this for the general good of the thread because too many people will argue the person and not the idea.
Folks, you can't change a person by offending them, but you can change them by making them see the errors in thought processes and potential plans. When you make a personal attack, it puts people in defensive mode, and turns off part of their ability to think logically about your ideas.
Sparrow, I think you are right. But this comes with understanding of others and the ability to accept different people while disagreeing with beliefs. You and I think alike a bit, I believe.
Astra, I am curious as to what Monster it is you speak of. I think you could be on to an interesting topic.
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