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Originally Posted by Iphinome
*sigh* Where to start, My sig is from the pirates of penzance where the pirate king sings about how as a pirate he's far more honest than people in so-called respectable professions who's dirty work rise to extreme measures.
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I know. gilbert and sillivan. Excellent opera. I cut my teeth on it for a while. It's probably my favorite.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
Second we didn't raise worms or men, I'm a woman.
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I ask a thousand pardons. It was not obvious to me from the name alone.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
Third, you listed some unpleasant things for you ... ... apples and oranges.
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True. Taken out of context purposely but I see now that you want to have an intelligent conversation. I shall try to limit my hyperbole. (try).
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
... what i argued against was making something unpleasant just for the sake of doing so. I'm speaking of the acts of a bully, you do see the difference do you not? ... Now let me ask you this, does pink underwear serve a practical purpose that wouldn't be served by red blue green or white underwear?
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1) Yes, I know that.
2) Yes.
3) Hm... yes, I think it does. The context there is that these people were sent to prison for horrible acts that they committed. They have lost (hopefully for the time being) their right to mix in the humane humans. As many inhabitants of jails have to real plans or interest in doing anything but "time", this is a further reminder that they are separated for a reason. I truly don't see how it harms them. If it caused them physical harm, I would be against it. If I considered it torture, I would be against it. I am not against it.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
Fourth, I did not mention prison, a sheriff does not run a prison, such a person runs a jail. They are not the same thing. A jail is for petty offenders with short sentences and persons awaiting trial who have not posted a bond. A drunk who pees on your car goes to jail, a rapist goes to prison after a fair trial and a conviction. In neither case is the sentence embarrassment, it is imprisonment.
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Good point. Although my understanding is that these individuals have done enough to warrent being treated this way. I could be wrong, but I am afraid that I still would not see the harm in pink undies.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
Fifth, I'm not sure locking up all the lawyers would be a bad thing but a lawyer does not prepare a defense alone and a citizen does have a right to to argue motions pro-se. One of the requirements to be competent to stand trial is the ability to assist in your own defense. And even if you thought persons who are innocent until proven guilty are somehow deserving of punishment...
http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights...constitutional |
Although I don't consider the ACLU as a credible source, I understand your concerns. You might as well quote from Chairman Mao or Geobbels -- as far as I'm concerned (with their current record), it's propaganda. Perhaps we could just lock up the ACLU lawyers (I am sorry, I couldn't resist a punch line). Yes, a citizen does have a right to prepare a defense, and to have legal counsel should s/he not be able to afford one. Time honored tradition. Good thing. However, in the current practice of the legal system, too many lawyers getting too many guilty people off the hook, and also bankrupting good people, leaves a sour taste in one's mouth. We're arguing separate points here.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
This is an offense to human dignity. It would be shameful to treat animals the way this man is treating the people in his custody. By taking their liberty these persons are not legally allowed to provide for themselves and so it is his responsibility to provide sufficient food shelter and other care. They are not sentenced to food poisoning, starvation, lack of sleep or overcrowding sufficient to make Calcutta look like Montana.
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Getting rapists off Scot-free is shameful. Getting child molesters off with a slap on the wrist is an offense to human dignity. I think that the prisoners would get over having to wear pink undies. Taking the liberty of persons awaiting trial that have not posted bond is unfortunate... nothing more. There are plenty of crooked lawyers who will argue to a judge that just because their "client" is a previous felon, has been in a violent confrontation, or has already fled prosecution on several occasions, that he really IS good enough to be released on reduced bail or his own recognizance.
Food poisoning is icky. Starvation is criminal. Lack of medical care for serious issues should be looked into, and fixed from some outside humanitarian organization if they can keep it in their pants enough to treat those who are seriously suffering, and not argue that denying the Playboy Channel is cruel and unusual. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those kinds of organizations.
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Originally Posted by Iphinome
Sixth, I'd like to see a citation for you cable tv story.
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Artistic license.
Thank you for an intelligent and non-inflamatory discussion.