[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

I believe you're assigning to me wishes and motivations that I do not have. If anything, my arguments and assumptions are quite reserved. If I took my observations to their logical conclusions I'd have to say that there will be zero money in fiction within fifteen years, from any source and using any business models.

Maybe I am assigning those things.

It's just to me, the argument of "creators will always create", especially when coupled with the argument "the author needs to find ways to add value to their book" seems to indicate that the person making those arguments does not place any inherent value on the creation of the book itself.

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

That taken into account, I don't believe I, or anyone else for that matter suggested that you can't 'try to make money', just that the old world models of making that money are diminishing and must be replaced with new models.

Others have belittled members of this site for having a "money money money" attitude after such members expressed a desire to be paid, somehow, for their creations.

Others have suggested authors have no right to make a living from their creative endeavours. That writing is a priviledge and they should be happy to be creative in their spare time around their "real job".

I agree, trying to make any money from digitised works will require a new model of business though.

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

The time effort and 'scarcity' as you put it, of the authors endeavour cannot be gauged with the end product any longer. These metrics of value are subjective, unlike a physical book which has weight and substance and has inherent value as a physical object. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

I never said it was hard to grasp.

I merely pointed out that the idea of "it is in digital form and therefore is inherently valueless" does not take into account the value of creative the work itself.

Yes, placing a value on the creative process may be difficult but that is not my point. My point is that the creative process does have value. Without that process there would be no creative products, whether in an inherently valueless digital form or otherwise.

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

Bullet point time:


1. Digital objects cannot be locked down.

2. More and more people share digital objects.

3. Digital objects have a perceived value of zero and a near-to-zero cost to reproduce.

4. Writers must find ways to keep audiences and monetize their digital products.


Seems logical to me that any action taken to criminalize, ostracise or generally piss-off a potential digital audience is counter-productive, considering the list above. DRM, lawsuits, abrasive copyrights, lack of understanding of the file sharing world, all these factors will diminish any market you might want to cultivate and the monetization of that market.

I never argued otherwise.

Still doesn't change the fact that if the creative process is deemed valueless then no amount of talk about the evils of DRM or excessive copyright means much of a damn anyway. It's all smoke and mirrors to justify the disire to pay nothing for "valueless digitial products".(note, I'm not suggesting you personally are arguing this)

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

Also, every single time we hear one of these file sharing=theft, you're taking food off my table arguments, it just pegs the owner as some old codger and makes them tragically unhip to any new audience. Why would any writer want to shoot themselves in the foot like that, when their very livelihood might depend on building fan bases and working tightly within the communities they create?

I never made those arguments.

Having said that, every time we hear the arguments of "I would never have bought it anyway so no sale is lost" or "I'm downloading this one for free but fully intend to buy something else by the author in future" or "most downloaded books are never read so no sale is lost" or "it is digital and therefore easily copyable and therefore should be free" it makes the person making the argument seem like they just want free stuff.

Cheers,
PKFFW
P.S: I'm off to enjoy my honeymoon so wont be able to respond for a couple of weeks.