[frabjous]

Originally Posted by Trubu

I'm curious as to what you find so poor about the iPhone/iPad's HTML 5 support. It does't support everything the desktop Safari does (yet), but it's certainly used to good effect on a number of Google's services sites, MLB, etc. What are you trying to do that it doesn't support?

Please see my post earlier in the thread.

It's just as bad on the mac Desktop version. In fact, the iPhone (not the iPad) version might be better; I've never tested that.

But in short: it prebuffers everything even if the HTML5 attributes tell it not to. Basically this means that if a page has multiple HTML5 tags it'll overwhelm the entire system. I've crashed many macs and iPads testing this. (The people at the store I did the testing at are starting to watch out for me now.) The MP3 codec used also plays many MP3s at the wrong frequency.

i'd hardly say apple is trying to kill adobe.

I didn't say they were trying to kill Adobe.

you're mixing flash applications with flash itself.

How so? You called flash a parasite? How could it be if the applications aren't?

there are plenty of fine flash applications out there, and plenty of junk.

Sounds like the internet in general.

you may not like my choice in terms, but flash is wholly dependant on the operating system and browser for its existence and use. flash is not an operating system, it's not even a browser, and it is very easy to write a browser that doesn't support flash. just look at mobile safari.

Please take the conversation seriously. Did you really think anyone was implying that flash could run without an operating system? The point is, it isn't tied to any particular operating system in particular, and there's nothing even about the iPad OS that makes it incompatible with using flash.

No browsers, except for recent versions of Chrome, were written "in a way that supports flash". Flash is not part of Internet Explorer or Firefox. All modern browsers, however, support plug-ins. Mobile Safari is not written in a way that precludes using it with flash. Apple simply does not allow that particular plug in to be installed on the iPad.

flash needs to hook into the browser to catch a mime type, then hook into the OS to render its content correctly, to catch responses from the user if needed, to store its "super cookies". there's a lot more to flash than just displaying a hulu video.

It seems to me that you are the one being naive. Flash does not require hardware acceleration. "Catching a mime type" is the kind of thing a 10 year old could program in 2 minutes. "Hook into an OS to render its content correctly"--that's just being vague. Of course, it needs to interact with various aspects of the operating system. But these are not large roadblocks, and surely, Adobe would do all the necessary work if it needed to. Apple just won't let them.

this is where your argument fails. who are you to say that apple made the wrong decision?

Who am I to say? Blatantly fallacious ad Hominem. Who I am is unimportant. As for why I think they made the wrong decision, I have already provided arguments.

unless you're steve jobs in disguise of course.

Steve Jobs is not infallible. He is capable of making mistakes. I believe he made a mistake here. I have said why.

and to discard my points as "completely and utterly irrelevant" writes you off as close minded and unable to accept someone else's opinion, the same things you accuse me of.

I said they were irrelevant to the topic of what they should have done, and I explained why. I would be closed minded if I ignored arguments you were giving regarding that topic. But you gave no argument. You just said "it was their choice to make". That simply is not relevant to the topic of whether it was the right choice. It just isn't. That's not being closed minded. It's simple logic.

you sure like to be bossy to your friends. who are you to make the judgement that they spent their money poorly or wisely? it isn't your money. there's a famous quote about judge not.. or another about walking a mile..

You seem to think there's something wrong with my having an opinion. Having an opinion or forming a judgment is one thing. Being an jerk about it is another. That was a hypothetical example. If a friend behaved as I said, out of concern for them I might tell them I think they did the wrong thing. That's not being bossy. It's being a good friend. In the end, the only people hurt by the fact that I can't get my website to work on an iPad are iPad customers. I think Jobs did them a disservice. I am saying so in the context of a discussion on the topic of whether their decision was a good one. I hardly think anyone, except perhaps you, is so thin-skinned that they would be personally insulted by it. I'm sure Steve Jobs doesn't care what I think.

i think you missed the point of microsoft's announcement. they are supporting h.264 as a video delivery system and not flash. the two are competing when it comes to a delivery system.

h.264 is not a delivery system, period.

yes, flash can continue to be used for other types of content, and even for video content, but it won't be natively supported in IE.

IE has never "natively" supported flash. The only browser that has are the newest versions of Chrome (not even released to the public yet).

and as i said, it's just a warning shot, microsoft has silverlight waiting in the wings. microsoft could easily block flash from running on the windows platform and push developers to use silverlight instead. adobe exists not only at apple's whim but microsoft's as well and could be shut out of either platform with a simple update.

I've never said they couldn't do these things. Again, the issue isn't about what could be done, but what should be done.

no, i would have started a "worship steve jobs" thread, but personally i don't like the man, so you won't find me there. i find it funny that if you like apple's products people resort to calling you a "cult member" or say that you "worship steve jobs"

Don't put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out the irony of starting a thread where people are supposed to "fight" over the flash issue, but then you complain when people take the other side of the fight.

right, but if you expect change, then you ought to be complaining in the appropriate forum. i find it highly unlikely that jobs visits mobileread.

Jobs isn't going to change his mind or take other action until it becomes clear that this issue is hurting his sales. I don't know whether it will or not, but if there's anyone considering buying an iPad, who comes to MobileRead to find out what people think of it, I do admit, I hope they will read my posts about the trouble I've had providing a replacement for flash, and decide it isn't for them, since that is something that might make a difference, it enough people do it enough places.

And for the record, I've already emailed Jobs.

as a few people like to point out, html 5 isn't yet a set-in-stone standard, so guess we'll just have to wait and see what support updates bring us in the future. what browsers do support it 100% at this point?

My needs mentioned in the post I linked above were fairly minimal, and all browsers that support HTML5 audio tags at all (Firefox, Chrome, Opera, etc.) except Safari on the mac/iPad did fine with it.