Thread: Sci-fi authors you (and I) should NEVER read
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:21 PM   #62
EatingPie
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I'm going to do two posts, one for each book. Hope that's okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radius View Post
However, I think that you also have mistaken some of his characters' viewpoints for his own.
Yes, that is the danger of any fictional work. However, the context of this particular quote (teaching Mike), Heinlein using characters to "preach," a common trait seen in other books (Starship Troopers already cited), and the acceptance of this as wisdom by Mike -- mixed in with other things the woman was telling him here, also acceped as wisdom -- suggest that Heinlein really believed this himself.

Quote:
With respect to your quote from SiaSL, don't forget that in many, many other stories the women go about in extremely scanty, or even scandalous, clothing without the expectation that they might be raped, and that they deserved it if so.
Indeed, and if you find those quotes, we can certainly analyze them and see if the author is suggesting this as truth. But that certainly does not justify Heinlein making this suggestion, the context of this thread led to why I cited him in particular.

Quote:
The context of the quote that you seem to be ignoring is that most of Heinlein's protagonists believe that a) you need to be responsible for your own choices and actions, and b) you must take the universe as it is and not as you wish it to be. So in the above quote, the character is saying that behaving a certain way may make it more likely that a rapist may choose you as a target instead of someone else (ie: the world as it is) but this is entirely separate from saying that it is legally or morally your fault if that happens (ie: the world as it should be).
I agree here. However, there's that little bit that says, and I quote, "it's at least partly her own fault." A very, very dangerous suggestion (fortunately, while much of SiaSL was revered by the '60s culture, this particular aspect was not).

Even in the context of personal responsibility being important, this is a totally irresponsible statement. Because the personal responsibility is that the rape is partly the woman's fault!

Okay, that's part 1.

-Pie
Last edited by EatingPie; 11-09-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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