Quote:
Originally Posted by ardeegee
Pretty much every article I read on him or see on TV about him talks about his complaints about being harassed by other soldiers for his being a Muslim. So either you haven't actually read very much about this, or you are being disingenuous.
http://news.google.com/news/search?a...Hasan+harassed
which would surprise me in no way whatsoever, given:
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/h...talism-miltary
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...enAGMSPeoCsImQ
Here's where I'm coming from-- I'm an unapologetic atheist. I think Christians AND Muslims are deluded by superstitions. But at least I know something about the conventions of both cultures. In Muslim culture, saying Allah Ackbar (or however you wish to spelling) is a common, normal phrase-- well, just read the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir
much like Muslims use some parenthetical exclaim of praise after the name of any deeply important religious figure. That is as automatic an exclamation in Islam as is saying "god bless you" after someone sneezes in some western countries. Christianity doesn't have a near-reflexive phrase like that (except for maybe people who say "god willing" after just about every statement) so you don't see Christian shooters using it. There is nothing in his using a very common phrase used a hundred million times a day by Muslims around the world (and that isn't hyperbole) that automagically makes it a cut-and-dry "religiously motivated" "terrorist" attack. I still don't see much difference between Hasan and the office shooter in Florida the next day (other than Hasan being much more successful.) That each one had different personal grievances that they were trying to get revenge for is a difference in degree, not type.
It may turn out that he did, indeed, intend a "terrorist" attack-- but there is no proof of that yet-- you are drawing absolute conclusions that are far from justified or warranted by the scant information available.
Here's a quote from a shooter from a few months ago. Are you going to say that he was religiously motivated?
"Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell," ... "I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them."-- George Sodini
http://i.abcnews.com/US/story?id=8255530&page=1 |
I'm not being disingenious at all. everything I have read has indicated that while he did not fit in, he was NOT being mistreated. those are two extremely different issues.
your first link was to a page of google links, I am not going to read them all. however, the very first link was from the Christian Science Monitor, and here is a quote from that article;
***"Maj. Aisha Bakkar says that her fellow Marine officers and enlisted Marines have never had a problem with her religious background. On the contrary, she believes that people are receptive to her faith and that the events of 9/11 actually have enlightened a lot of people about Islam. "
you say;
"Here's where I'm coming from-- I'm an unapologetic atheist. I think Christians AND Muslims are deluded by superstitions. But at least I know something about the conventions of both cultures. In Muslim culture, saying Allah Ackbar (or however you wish to spelling) is a common, normal phrase-- well, just read the Wikipedia article:"
what the hell does that have to do with your quip about him yelling "Admiral ...." (whatever you wrote). I know a GREAT deal about both Christian and Muslim mythologies. right now it seems you are just typing to see your words in print.