[Kosst Amojan]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Surely you are not arguing that everyone is actually treated equally in the USA? Even under the law?

What do you mean, even under the law? What I was say is that everyone should be treated the same under the law. And if they aren't it is either a problem with the people or the law, any of which should be corrected.

A simple example would be the many cases where black people have been given a far more severe penalty for the same offence than white people have received.

I don't think I was clear about where I was coming from. That is a picture (below) of me with with the past Libertarian candidate for President Bob Barr (It was summer of last year I believe). Now, I'm not a libertarian; I'm an Objectivist from Southern Louisiana of all places and I have dealt with racism before. The last time was when I was pulled over in Maryland because it was 2am and the cops thought I had a white woman in the car with me (she was a light skinned hispanic). But there was nothing in the law that caused them to do that and mo law isn't going to change whats in their hearts.

It is all well and good to argue from a "philosophical" view point based on a utopian ideal where everyone is actually treated equally. The reality is far different to this though.

I keep pressing the phrase "under the law" and you're still not hearing me. As individuals, we're not equal. I'm smarter then some people, some are smarter then me. I've been healthy my whole life, worst thing I've ever had was strep throat when I was nine. Why should I be forced to pay for other peoples health care? If I do get sick, I have insurance and I can pay the rest or get a loan for it. If someone I care about gets sick, I can help them out IF I WANT TO. Its my life, my money, and it should be my choice.

As for giving reasons why, many reasons why have been given throughout the thread. Eg: healthy people are more productive thereby benefiting society more, healthy people cost less in emergency medical care thereby lessening the cost over all to all participants in the health care system, common decency to put the welfare of your comman man above your own hip pocket just to name a few.

Common decency? And who defines that? Whatever the collectivist say it is? Where I'm from it isn't enforced by the point of a gun. As for healthy people and society, well you're right. Healthy, educated people are better for it. But the way you want to achieve that is by the most immoral way possible, at the point of a gun.

And in case you think I'm kidding (I'm not sure where you're from) in America if you don't pay your taxes then don't attend the inevitable court seizing your assets, men with guns are going to come to your house to take you away and if you resist they may very well shot you.

Finally, I will ask again, if it is ok for any government(federal, state or local) to provide socialised police, fire brigades, defence forces, education, sanitation etc etc etc then why would it not be ok to provide health care? Or are you arguing that each individual be required to fund their own private services for the above?

The Preamble to the Constitution of the United States

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

And just to shoot down a bad argument I've heard too many time, James Madison, the principle author of the Constitution states the general welfare clause granted Congress no additional powers other than those enumerated within the Constitution.

That however is a restriction on the federal government, except for defense and federal police (another story there) all of it is run by the various states. But the only just function of government is protecting the rights of the individual, period.