[queentess]

Originally Posted by ahi

Given the discrepancy, I'm guessing there might be multiple sources for such quotes from and/or about Lem.

That was the actual paragraph that your wikipedia "reference" cited. Whoever notated it in wikipedia was biasing the quote.

Originally Posted by ahi

But what's the eye-roll for?

We were talking about how Asimov is a great writer but his characters are a little lacking. You chime in with "random author who was snubbed by science fiction writers believes that all American sci-fi writers are only interested in money". It's a big generalization, not very relevant, and was designed to be inflammatory (esp after I saw what the original quote says) and I assumed you were trolling.

Originally Posted by ahi

If nothing else, I have difficulty disagreeing with Lem's assertion that most science fiction is poorly written. Comments about two and one dimensional characters well illustrate that some of the genre's greatest achievements are subpar in some literarily fundamental ways. (Despite obviously excelling in other ways generally considered more important to the genre, but which ought not impair literary fundamentals.)

That really depends upon what the reader gets out of the novel. I love science fiction and don't see characters as a short-coming if the rest of the story is strong enough. Human characters alone do not a story make, especially in sci-fi where the planet, universe, alien culture, etc, can become a fleshed out character. Novel ideas are also important to me.

Originally Posted by ahi

As to your dismissal of him on account of never having heard his name before... I'm left a little astonished.

Why? I haven't ever heard of him, therefore using him as your Appeal to Authority argument isn't working on me. I don't see him as an expert in the field. And after reading about the little incident he had with the SFWA, it seems like he was just having a tantrum about not being included. So now I really don't trust his opinion or believe he is an authority on the subject.