[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

You proved my point. Anyone can HOPE to make a living, that's fine, but to EXPECT or DEMAND that living is another kettle of boiled monkeys altogether. And who am I to rant and rave, well, I'm that guy who writes for love, you know, the one who doesn't expect to make money and has no intentions of writing for any reason other than I love to write. I'm that guy who's looking at the future and seeing that writers better start shifting their expectations or they're in for a massive shock. I'm the guy arguing for love and not dollar bills. That's who I am.

Who ever said anyone DEMANDED to make a living from writing? Many have said they would like to or that they want to be paid for their writing rather than give it away for free. No one that I have read on here is arguing that they have the right to DEMAND to make enough money from writing to earn a living from it.

As for the rest of what you said there, that's all your opinion and your values and gives you no right to preach to others about how they should do things.

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Well both Twitter and Google were started with very little investment at all, by people just as interested then in the coding/intellectual aspects of their respective technologies as they ever were in the monetary gain. Google continues to show that same pioneering/inquistive spirit even now after earning ridiculous amounts of money with projects such as Google Summer of Code and the open-sourcing of API's to do with a lot of their respective IP. I'd actually defy you to find any of these startups that weren't initially thought of by people who wanted to push boundaries, who wanted to break with old traditional models and prove a point. That they can or can't make money means little to the end user on the web.

Neither one of them wanted to do it just for the respect of some annonymous web users though. Both groups wanted to make money. The best way to do that was to come up with something innovative, that pushed boundries, yadda yadda yadda.

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Yes, I do believe that the web is the place for honest intent.

Then you better wisen up a little.

Originally Posted by Moejoe

The scams you talk about are seen through immediately by anybody with a brain, and by this I include most people who don't regularly watch American Idol. IDIOTS fall for these scams. I can't do anything to cure IDIOTS or argue that there aren't a lot of them. But by that token I would say that most people who like to read books are generally speaking not drooling-morons.

Easy to write off everyone who was ever hooked as an idiot. Isn't really rational though or supported by any fact.

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I don't know about fan fiction, never read any and never been tempted so I can't comment on the quality or lack thereof. But I have read a lot of independently published material this year and all of it, at a higher ratio than actual pay-for-books, has been very good. In fact, Boyd Morrison's thriller 'The Ark' was better than all of the thrillers I read last year from the best seller list, and by a vast margin.

My point was just because it is independantly published on the net doesn't mean it is going to be any good. In fact the vast majority of independantly published stuff on the web is pure shite. Just as you are claiming that the vast majority of published stuff is.

Maybe the fact that only the "lucky few" make money from their writing has more to do with only the "lucky few" being good enough to do so and less to do with how it is published??

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I don't recall ever saying I don't want 'escapist fun', but I certainly don't want drivel, and anybody who wants to make a living producing drivel, well, I'm not going to stop them. Have at it, I say. Produce your shite and let the idiots lap it up. If I wanted drivel I can turn on the TV at any time of the night and watch US imported dramas or some of our home-grown crap that plagues the box. If all you want is drivel then I can't argue with you. Although I can recommend a novel by a writer called Dan Brown.

Nice attempt at twisting my words. I never said that is what I prefer.
[/QUOTE=Moejoe]Sometimes, yes.[/QUOTE]
And that really is the crux of your argument. You see yourself as somehow more creative and pure and good than anyone who dares to admit that they would like to make money from their writing. That's nice for you, probably makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it's just your opinion.

I'm off for a week so I wont be replying.

Cheers,
PKFFW