[kamm]

Originally Posted by Gideon

@kamm
Cliche or not, doesn't mean it isn't true. Some of us would rather be able to discuss these issues without it deteriorating into a "Apple sucks" "or Apple just makes overpriced junk" blah blah blah. That sort of vitriol isn't particularly useful. We might as well be arguing if the 360 or PS3 is a better device.

The claim of "fanboy" or "apple cult" or whatever is generally the first thing said in such conversations. Yes, it's stupid to have an irrational devotion to a company. I've not seen much of evidence in this thread of that - it's been a pretty back and forth conversation and the people saying "they could make such a product" in no way means "APPLE IS TEH AWESOME and EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS." There have been fans, and there have been advocates but it's not been fanboy central over here.

This conversation, and unfortunately, largely beginning with you - has taken on the tone of something out of a Fark thread.

You know, I'm an annoyingly fact-based person so let me give you a few links to see how I think this Apple-zealotry started here:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...51&postcount=3 <-yes, the first of such posts was yours...

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=14 <- our least informed poster

Anyway, everyone's free to express his opinion, I think.

Apple, whatever else one may think, has over the last few years managed to get their act together (before the intel chips I wouldn't go near one myself) and has beaten the hell (or is in the process of doing so) out of both the cellphone and the personal music market.

No offense but I'd call it nonsense. In fact double nonsense.
Even despite taking full advantage of the completely distorted, abusive, non-competitive US cell market Apple's single device (iPhone 3G) barely the second behind RIM, besieged by Blackberries from all sides.
Outside of the US - countries with competitive cell market, you know - they have a single-digit market share...

Music players - yes, they did "beat the hell out of the market" (whatever that means ) in terms of sales - but this market was about to explode, existed well before the iPod and iMTS was never more than controlled-closed platform of their own money-making 'econosphere', if it had any effect then it was making the non-DRM market stronger (quite the opposite Apple wanted to achieve regardless of their claims.).

And is it for everyone? No. But it'd be stupid to deny that they are popular and that the people that do use them generally enjoy them. That's not something we see a lot with tech - enjoyment of use. We tend to have to use technology despite itself - we value that advantage of the general pain in the ass we have to deal with to use it.

I tend to agree here though it really depends on the person. Also I don't think anyone ever claimed Apple is not popular or competent, you're fighting your own strawman here, I think.

Look at eReaders - if one really wants to get a lot of mileage out of one's device, you have to work for it! I have Windows installed for the SOLE reason of being able to use the MobiCreator program! I spend hours editing documents to work properly! And most of us here, being a fan community, do similar things!

That's exactly what I meant above - it really depends on the person. Some might view this as lack of design from the software/hardware maker, some, like you, look it as fun.

I think that's one of the reasons we see Apple Fanboys - they get to enjoy using their technology instead of having to worry about it. And again - this is a generalization. But it's also a fair one - some Apple users may be schmucks, but they love their computers and ipods and crap because they just get the pleasure of it without the fight.

It is a generalization and a pretty sweeping one at that - I can point you to plenty of topics where you can witness the shortcomings of Apple softwares, the annoying issues one has to find a way around.
It's nowhere better than Windows or linux - in many cases it's worse due to its lacking/limited software library.

Some people want the fight, some need it. But not all of us. I'm no Apple Fanboy... Apple does a lot wrong and has done a lot wrong. But I love how beautifully my Macbook and iMac play together. I love how easy it is to use a MacMini as a media center integrated with the rest of my home system. And I could replicate almost all of it for maybe... oh... 25% less on PC's. And I'd spend an ENORMOUS amount of time dealing with it, coaxing it into position. My time is worth enough to me to say "screw it! I'm getting a Mac!" And that's common!

As long as you stay within their econosphere you're safe and sound, no question about it. bad things only start happening when you try to put it into work in a bigger network, o play with others nicely - lack of meaningful directory services support, DFS support etc just a pain to support in a mostly Windows-based corporate world... my sysadmin could go on and on how many times he has to 'clue up' Mac users about even basic things like networked computers or how email works my favorite line from a very high-ranking big pharma exec, asking the other one: "I heard that Macs aren't that good for email, right?" )

You get the occasional bad experience, but when you have hardware problems and you're under warranty... you are taken care of well! My vid card went out on my iMac - it was out of warranty. It took them about a week longer to fix than it was supposed to because they broke something in it while fixing it. They upgraded my video card and fixed it all and didn't charge me a dime. I had some dust in my iPhone, the guy took a look at it and handed me a new one. Total time? 10 minutes. And because Apple has MobileMe (not the best service, but it has its moments) in just a few minutes my new iPhone had all the right contact info and bookmarks.

...but if you have anything else than iPhone you can choose between providers rather than being locked into one system...

Compare that to what most people experience in those situations with Dell or their cell company or whatever.

Actually CS has little to do what I was saying but sure, let's discuss it. FYI Dell made pretty serious efforts to tidy up its CS operations, I'd rate them ahead of HP now (and I am a huge fan of HP's WS support and it's 7PM cutoff for overnight warranty shipping etc, all included free for 3 years with any WS).

You don't think that means something to most people? They get their time and dignity back! Some of us might be able to do all of our own stuff, but most people can't - and shouldn't have to. I'd much rather have the non-profit directors I know that have me help with their tech be out saving the world than screwing with their computers! And so would they.

Sure, I agree. OTOH the "geniuses' replaced my dead 250GB HDD with a 100GB one (why did it take 3 days, I have no idea) - I never thought I had to check the results of such a simple operation especially nto when it took 3 days... next day back to the store, a major PITA, I'd have preferred the HP/Dell/Amazon way, to egt prepaid shipping with pick up.
My point is they have just as many bumps as others and often their 'in-store' approach is rather annoying.

Ultimately, real discussion of a product killer is going to be a bit silly at this stage in the game (hypothetical product and all) but there is a lot of very good reasons to think that if Apple came out with such a device and it could read ebooks that it would seriously dent the unitasker ebook market. The zeitgeist about Apple is going in the direction I outlined above... there's TRUST there. It may be misplaced, but it is there.

I disagree, I think they have a good shot at the high-end nebtook/tablet market but no shot at the ebook readers whatsoever.

It's not about them being innovators, no one cares about that sort of garbage except techies.

Yeah, because 2without innovators you can have anything from Apple... interesting logic you got there, pal.


[quote] It's about them turning whatever in to something that people WANT to use, enjoy using, and ideally - just let them use the damn thing! I don't care who made tablets or ebooks or anything else - I care about who can provide me with a device that is pleasant to use, stable, and provides me with the content I want at a reasonable rate.
[/qutoe]

Or so you are being told by the marketing dept - I'm sure they are iggling when tyhey read posts like this.

Good corporate subjects, that's what we have become...