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Originally Posted by tompe
I really do not believe the evidence shows this. Of course it might be true but there is not enough evidence for holding this as true. How do you test that "oneself" is recognized?
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Google it - there are a couple of widely accepted tests (e.g. placing a dot on an animal and presenting it with a mirror. Most animals will react as they would to a different animal, but they will not react to the dot. Some kinds of animals recognize themselves and "search for the dot" or try to move around to get a better look at it.)
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Just one experiment that seems to show something is not enough. Remember all the experiment that seemed to show that an ape had a language with abstract concepts.
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I stated one experiment, I never said there was only one. I am currently too lazy and too occupied to really search for every experiment done to show this and I dont think anybody would value the amount of papers they would have to read. Apart from that I believe that you would never agree with me - no matter what kind of experiments I showed you.
You might start considering that animals are more complex then one believes - or start pulling evidence showing the opposite. You stated that animals had no sense of time and could not reflect about something prior to doing it - well: Where is your experiment? And remember: Just one experiment that shows "yes, at least one animal is able to do this" is neglecting your theory. (Yes, I will research the experiment I quoted. Yes, I will add an experiment that shows that some Corvidae can build tools out of wire w/o prior knowledge or training. Then it's your turn.)
(Oh and apart from that I do not state that animals have human intelligence or superpowers or whatever else - I simply stated that they are (sometimes far) more intelligent then many people believe and that we simply dont have enough evidence to really state "they cannot do this or cannot do that").