[tirsales]

Originally Posted by bertold

There was no need to show them debating for days, but letting them make the decision without being tricked was necessary

I agree - but still I dont consider this an "oh so bad error" - it spoils some (relevant) context about the Ents, but its easier to understand in the short timespan of a film.

Movie-Elrond has very little to do with book-Elrond. Book-Elrond did not think Men were weak and couldn't be trusted.

You refer to the beginning of the film and Elronds flashback? Then I agree. Isnt it Elrond who said that the age of the humans is beginning?

First, you are talking about Theoden.

OH MY GOD ... Shouldn't write stuff like that when I'm tired..

I was talking about Denethor. Gandalf beat him with his staff when Denethor called for surrender at Minas Tirith.

My apologies - I really have forgotten this scene..

Second, there was no exorcism in the book! This whole notion of Theoden possessed by Saruman is a silly invention of Jackson's dreadful imagination.

Yes, I know - but again it is very hard to put the livid and complex world of Tolkien into a film. I was annoyed when I first watched the movie at this scene - because it makes much more sense (with Grima) to consider Theoden as a ruler who just listens to bad advice then to imagine him being under direct influence of Saruman (why would he need Grima then? He is not the type to settle for unneeded help (neither in the book nor in the movie...).
But then - I can imagine that it is much harder to portray the real story, so I guess the change was not only to get it more action-like. And then its a change I can somehow forgive .. it still annoys me, but it doesnt spoil the fun of watching the movie - it is not the book, but its a nice movie in its own rights.
(Though I, still, much prefer Boromir over Aragorn).

Of course not. A 1:1 conversion would not only be impossible, it would be boring and unwatchable. But the problem with how far Jackson deviated from the source material is that he butchered most of the characters and, what's worse, completely twisted and perverted the main themes of the book in order to accommodate his action flick format. He obviously has no understanding of the book and its characters. If he did, he wouldn't have come up with the whole Frodo-Gollum-Sam and lembas scene.

Agreed. But the development Frodo takes is hard to follow in the film - it spans 6 books!

He wouldn't have had Faramir take Frodo to Osgiliath*. He wouldn't have made Arwen into Xena the Princess Warrior.

I understood that it was Liv Taylor who wanted this change?

He wouldn't have made Eomer a second rate nobody, Treebeard an easily tricked fool, Gimli a pathetic clown, Legolas a blond, effeminate buffoon. He wouldn't have sent the Elves to Helm's Deep, since that was so utterly against one of the main themes of the book. And so on, and so forth.

Oh god, I forgot about the Elves in Helm's Deep .. The Elves are gone, its the age of the humans - where the hell did the Elves come from?
*shudders*

One of the most startling things about this whole scene was not that Faramir took Frodo to Osgiliath, but that he let him go later. He witnesses a scene in which Frodo is willing to very easily give the Ring up to a Nazgul showing no self control whatsoever, yet thinks that the Ring will be safer with him none-the-less! It's just all too horrible to comprehend.

Agreed - not withstanding the problems to get back to Mordor from Osgiliath w/o delay and getting noticed. Apart from that: Faramir is openly betraying his father in this scene - much more so then in the book.
AND Faramir is stronger then Boromir - the book makes this very clear (Boromir frees himself of the ring in the end but falls victim to him first, Faramir has no need to free himself - as he didnt fall victim).

Seems like I really have suppressed some of the more annoying changes in the film
Still I believe that "as a film in its own rights" it is a nice one - I had fun watching the movies. It's not LOTR, but it is nice. And the CGI is astonishing.