[tirsales]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

What exactly is it that animals learn? How to survive.

Not true.

From their parents, herd, whatever. Its an instinctive behavior, right?

It is not. For examples (some) dolphins might learn to trigger impulses on computers by targeting them with their "echolocation rays". If they hit some lights change - its a game, nothing more. I dont have the source with me (read it in a (printed) paper belonging to my sister..), but it actually hasnt been some kind of experiment or training. IIRC the "device" had a completely different intended usage and the "color change" was part of a testing setup (or something similar) that the scientists simply forgot to remove. The scientists observed this behaviour in several dolphins by accident - dolphins playing games with some random pieces of technology, without getting any reward (apart from the pleasure of seeing those lights change) or training.

They have to learn this in order to survive. Hardly puts us on the same plane.

I did not say that "normal animals" and humans have the same cognitive features (though it is hard to say where exactly the cognitive features of animals end - they are far more intelligent then most people think). I simply stated that learning or social behaviour is not something "human only" - no, not even "unneeded learning".

Humans, yes, we are animals, but have evolved beyond simply surviving.

Try playing with some animals.

Hitler is a prime example of what I said about choosing to live positively or negatively. He chose the negative side. He wasn't the worse by any means.

I did not want to imply that he was.

The doctors who preformed the experiments in his camps,....they chose to show the worst side of humanity. They did it for the pleasure, science be dammed.

There are worse people then Dr. Mengele & Co.

Censoring music/shows whatever in my family isn't done without explanations ad nauseum. You can believe they know exactly why it isn't allowed.

I apologize for my misunderstanding.

Explanations are cruicial to understanding whats right and wrong. Thats part of the reason I fell away from my religious training. No questions were allowed. You believed on faith alone, or were dammed.

Then we are - at least partially - on an agreement here

Of course the Burger King ad has a message! Do you see the last part?? "Booty is booty"

Hmm, seems like the German version is a different one (still annoying).

Kids pick up phrases instantly. Please! Thats what anyone would want their daughter to grow up like? Would you be proud of YOUR daughter if she were one of those? Its not "just a commercial."

Never said I would want my daughter (lets pick niece, I have one) to grow up like this - all I wanted to say (and you already explained above) is that "censorship w/o reasoning is a bad thing" - because its not about "censoring BurgerKing" but about "teaching what's right"
But I think we are on an agreement here - if not in the means, then in the goal.

Being human means rising above this crap, not just the ads, but the entire world wide mess. It means doing whats right, whether thats picking up trash that isn't yours, or teaching your own right from wrong.

I still would say thats what's means being a "good human" (however you would state this) not necessarily a "human". I do not like definitions of "human" based on behaviour - it is much to easy to misuse those..

Oh, and I have to be gone for a while, so don't think I'm ignoring you.

Never would