[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I don't accept that it's possible to have a meaningful discussion of cultural differences based on caricatures.

Would you have preferred the term archetypes?

The whole thread was defined as a over-generalization, to wit "US/Europe Cultural Divide -- Musings". What do you do with that? It does not describe fine-grained subculture subtlies. Maybe I take my old debater training too seriously. (You can bring any relevant fact to the debate, but you can't change the defined subject of the debate.)

Originally Posted by nekokami

In fact, I thought the point of this topic was to get past such over-generalizations, and try to understand each other better.

I have tried to get past the generalisations by describing how various differences formed. Not acceptable. I tried limiting my scope. Not acceptable.
To me, it seems like the only option is caputulation of my ehtics base. Sorry - not acceptable.

Originally Posted by nekokami

I guess you really do stand by the quote in your sig line.

Of course I do. I hadn't been aware I'd been made a God, or even a wise man on a mountaintop. Just another human being. But everbody has prejudices, even you, Nekokami. I'm aware of most of mine, they were self chosen at age 14 after several months of introspection, based on the knowledge I had available then. Nearly 40 years later, I have found little data change them. I described some of mine, and why. (And I stand by my other sig line as well, even though it's a fictional place. You might want to read the book it came from.)

Can you describe your prejudices, and why?

Originally Posted by nekokami

Similarly, when I read someone defending short-sighted strategies in the name of individual liberty, I also get frustrated. My view of the resource chain includes the living and working conditions of those who perform the labor that the "modern" standard of living depends on. Does yours? (Not a rhetorical question.).

Since you haven't described your view of the resource chain, I probably can't. I will note, for example, the work that many years of my technical experience is geared to has been off-shored to lift other people out of poverty, and drop me towards poverty. But, I know, that's the big corporation's fault. But aren't I part of the resource chain? What about ranchers in Texas who can no longer compete and their land is returning to prarie? Are they part of your resource chain? People in the extraction portion of the US who are hamstrung by regulations of people who've never seen a rig, or walked into a mine? (I've done both.) Do they count? Or is just people who are destitute (and they are destitute) who have moved up from starving to destitute due to free trade and open markets? Who need to be move up to poor, no matter what the cost to people here in the resource chain?

(By the by, the largest ecological disasters created by technology have occured in areas without free markets and unlimited government.)

Originally Posted by nekokami

I'm part Cherokee. To me, the "American experiment" you're so fond of entailed one group seizing resources from another group, with no better justification than the historical accident that gave them access to more advanced weapons. If we want to include a historical perspective in this discussion of cultures, we need to include the less savory side of history as well. And I'm not saying that various countries now in the EU don't also have dark sides to their pasts-- it might be helpful to examine the contrasts and comparisons of these negatives as part of our discussion of cultural differences..

The seizure of resources by force has occurred on a steady basis since Ugg the Caveman invented the club. If you want to go into the negative side, Ok, but when I brought up the past, you insisted it was irrelevant. Pick your choice, but at least stay consistent.

Originally Posted by nekokami

Or, we can settle for "I'm entitled to my opinion, and nothing you say can change my mind!" In which case, I think I'll spend my time in other threads.

I'll sum it up by asking you the following question.

Where in the world will people who believe in a limited form of government be allowed to live and organize by those beliefs, without any "missionaries" trying to covert them, and without and unlimited form of government viewpoints controlling them because they end up successful?

Inquiring minds want to know...