Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward
Zerospinboson, cultural slants are what we are talking about. Does the US have cultural slants? Absolutely! Do they sometimes do thing that their culture is against? Absolutely! Do we think those things are good? Absolutely not!
But Europe has its clutural slants, too! You are not the level playing field, and everybody else is slanted. I have been trying to point out the differences, and why they are differences. Neither side is the level playing field. Until you recognize that every culture has its own slants, including your own, you can't meaningly talk about the differences.
The slant that seems to be hitting the hot button is the how the acquistion and use of governmental power is perceived differently by the two cultures. It is a bedrock issue in understanding the differences between the two culture. I have been using as neutral a tone about discussing the differences as I can, in this lively discussion. Go through this entire thread and you won't find my saying the US is best, or right, once. But only when you understand the basis of your own culture's basis for governmental power can you compare it to other basises.
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The point of my replies was not to point out the trivial truth that points of view exist and are to some extent incommensurable, my point was to correct for the misinformation you're giving out here about how "at rock bottom" the american constitution, and the "ingrained distrust" (which only breeds apathy) will protect you against any abuse of power whatever, whereas in Europe this happens as soon as a new government comes to power, and to point out (although I haven't the faintest why you're forcing me to) how manipulation of the popular opinion has happened in the US far more recently, and with far worse results for the rest of the world, than it happened in germany and italy (although the latter is debatable, given berlusconi).
Furthermore, I pointed out that while CCTVs might not be ubiquitous in the US yet, every other measure you can think of when it comes to checking the population's movements is, all because of a single event, and that I did not really see why you think the british case is any worse than your own, given your statements to the effect that "this could only happen in europe, where checks on what can and cannot be done are nonexistent".
In conclusion, my point wasn't even that "we look at government differently" (even though I don't believe for one second that your institutionalized fear/scepticism of the federal government is helping you "fight the good fight"), but just that you're presenting a cock-and-bull version of Europe, which you contrast with a near-utopian version of the USA.
What is the point of talking if, even after 440 posts, "Europe" is still being described as a monolithic, communist/totalitarian-leaning, constitution-less place, populated by people willing to give up all of their rights at the drop of a hat to whichever populist dictator comes along next; nor do or did they even care to
have these fundamental, unalienable rights to begin with?
Sure, Europe "has its own problems", but talking about Europe like Fox News would, talking about how the fact that the continent has seen continuous occupation for a while now "proves" that we're "at bedrock" still a bunch of absolutists that would despair as soon as the government didn't do something for us is beyond inane.