Quote:
Originally Posted by enuddleyarbl
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To be typographically correct, there should be a:
between the inner quote + outer quote.
For more details, see Jellby's + my responses in the famous thread:
We covered a ton of edge-cases, including this exact "which space between inner/outer quotes" one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans
For more technical discussion, see this 2015 topic where I answered it:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...30#post3099330
Typographical Note: Technically, the proper character between an inner+outer quote would be a THIN SPACE (U+2009).
... but support on devices is poor. So go with or no space at all. (I prefer no space and leave it up to the font's kerning.)
- “So then he told me, ‘Johnny, you’re an idiot!’ ”
- Thin Space. Typographically correct
- “So then he told me, ‘Johnny, you’re an idiot!’ ”
- No-Break Space. "Maximum compatibility", but too large.
- “So then he told me, ‘Johnny, you’re an idiot!’”
- No Space. Leave it up to the font/device/program to do proper kerning.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby
I say no, I'd rather let the font kerning take care of those (even if they normally don't). [...] If I wanted to add some space, I'd add a non-breaking thin space (U+202F), [...].
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Yes, exactly. Depends if it's for Print or Ebook too.
Personally, I'd rank them like this:
For Ebook (EPUB/MOBI)
- No space.
- Leave it up to the font + kerning.
- NON-BREAKING SPACE
- Max compatibility, while still giving you "a space AND non-breaking".
- Ugly, but will work everywhere, in every font, on every device.
Then in a far third/fourth, I'd settle for:
- THIN SPACE
- NON-BREAKING THIN SPACE
And then:
- Normal SPACE.
- Strongly recommend against this. Go with any of the other options instead.
For Print (InDesign/Word/LibreOffice)
- THIN SPACE
- (or NON-BREAKING THIN SPACE*)
- No space.
- If the font has proper kerning!
- - - - -
* Side Note: Most word processors + print layout programs already cause:
to be non-breaking, and many fonts already include that character.
Technically, the most-correct Unicode character is:
- NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE (U+202F)
If you
know your font actually has it + the device/program you're using supports it properly, then use it instead.
- - - - -
Side Note #2: For more technical info, see:
where I discussed French spacing + non-breaking characters in extreme detail.
French uses THIN SPACES all over the place, so this gap around punctuation becomes MUCH more of an issue.
- - - - -
Quote:
Originally Posted by enuddleyarbl
But, when I run across those in books, it looks jarring to me.
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Most ebooks + websites do it completely wrong. They use a normal SPACE, which is
much, much too large, so it:
1. Stands out like a sore thumb.
2. Doesn't break properly, so you often see a dangling quotation mark all by itself:
Code:
“So then he told me, ‘Johnny, you’re an idiot!’
”
Line-breaks like this happen MUCH more often on skinny devices, like cellphones.
That's just plain AWFUL, and the worst of all worlds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enuddleyarbl
So, I've been removing those spaces in the books I'm playing with. Yes, this is just for my own use, but if that's really the rule, should I reverse my search/replace and make sure there's a space in there instead of deleting any space that's there?
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Like Jellby said, in ebooks, I prefer the no-space version, then leave it up to the font. It:
- Makes the code and search/replace stuff SUPER simple and easy-to-read.
- Will never break.
- "Works" everywhere.
And if the font doesn't have the proper kerning for that pair? Well then, oh well.
In Print,
definitely use the proper thin spacing though!
- - -
Side Note: And how often do they happen in the books you're reading?
(I might see 1 or 2 inner+double quotes appear in MAYBE 20ish books. And it's mostly because I deal with a lot of citations, which may have double/single quotes in the actual titles/articles/blockquotes.)