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Old 04-08-2009, 09:34 AM   #149
zerospinboson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Which, with the greatest respect, astra, merely goes to emphasise the point that it's the system you grow up with that seems "right". I'm sure that the American system has its merits, but I don't want to have to worry about how I'm going to afford to pay $30,000 a year to send a child to college, or whether or not I'm going to be able to buy the medicines I need when I grow old. I'd rather have the "comfort" of knowing that such things are funded by my taxes.

Neither system is perfect, but personally (and I'm sure that many people would not agree) I'm pretty happy with things the way that we have them.
While I agree with most of what you say here, I do want to contest the statement that people always believe in whatever system they grew up with. Why else did MLK, Ghandi, women's suffrage, etc. etc. happen? I would hope that presenting arguments for alternatives does something to people, and that they're not entirely too blasé to even consider reconsidering some of the things they've grown up with.

It's fine to believe that people should work for their money, and work to achieve, but "affirmative action" (like, to be cheeky, the Marshall Plan) does work if you can that way help people who are facing otherwise insurmountable obstacles, like initial investment money.

How is it good for society to let someone who is otherwise fully educated sit collecting welfare because he/she became ill once, who then can't or couldn't get medical care because society figures "tough luck. shouldn't have gotten sick while unemployed"? Healthy people are more likely to stay motivated, to be hired, work harder, and perhaps even like the government that's keeping them healthy better.
Anecdote:
I know a guy living in SF who is uninsured like this, and when he goes to a "free clinic" to get a prescription for some sort of airway-related illness, they still send him a 200$ bill somehow. How is that a "free clinic"?
Consider this: this medication costs 20$ when prescribed, or 70$ when bought online, and without a prescription. So if you have insurance, it will cost you 20$, and if you don't, either 220$ or 70$, take your pick.
In comparison, a (5 minute) consult with a GP here will set you back €15-25.
How is it rational to say that people "shouldn't get sick," "shouldn't have had parents who didn't instill the protestant work ethic," etc.? And what is there to gain from creating extra hurdles for those that already get less medical care?

Accountability is one thing, but only creating opportunities for those that are most driven is just a strange form of elitism; it's just a fact of human nature that most people aren't as driven as Mandela was to see something through, so why not try to at least get them a decent education, in stead of either getting "the best" education when you get into MIT or an ivy league, or hardly any at all when you drop out of HS because you lived in the inner city with terrible teachers and no-good schoolbooks.

Last edited by zerospinboson; 04-08-2009 at 04:18 PM.
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