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Old 05-08-2022, 10:37 PM   #65
Tex2002ans
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Posts: 2,306
Karma: 13057279
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by graycyn View Post
Code:
<p><snip text>that young person answered respectfully,⁠⁠⁠—</p>
After the comma, your code accidentally has 3 WORD JOINERS in it.

Cut that down to 1 (or 0).

This is one of the dangers of using some of these invisible Unicode characters:
  • It becomes very tough to see when you've made errors
  • You may accidentally cause MORE bugs/harm than the problem you're trying to solve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graycyn View Post
I'd prefer that em-dashes don't break off and end up on a line by themselves, because it could be distracting.
I'd still stick with the advice I've been saying for years:

In ebooks, don't worry about quirks in EM DASH linebreaks.

Leave it up to each device's/program's linebreak algorithms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graycyn View Post
I am using the Word Joiner HTML entity ( & # 8 2 8 8 ; ) between the comma and the em-dash. I'm assuming that there is no need for the word joiner between the word and the comma?
No need between word and comma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graycyn View Post
[...] Will all that hold together with *bags* if the joiner is used between the right quote and the em-dash or do I need to have the word joiner between the word AND each punctuation mark?

Code:
<p><snip text>mumbling something about “bothering old bags,”—</p>
or this:

Code:
<p>after the other—”</p>
Do I need the word joiner before AND after the em-dash?
Again, I wouldn't worry about this word joiner stuff.

But, if you had to pull my teeth, this is where WORD JOINER would be placed around the EM DASH:
  • Example #1: BEFORE
  • Example #2: BEFORE + AFTER

* * *

Side Note: Similar issue happens with odd linebreaking around the ELLIPSIS character + other punctuation.

For more info on that, see my posts in:

and all the linked threads which go into extreme detail.

Side Note #2: Most devices handle the ELLIPSIS character properly though, where the EM DASH is much trickier, because many languages use them as "Quotation Dashes":

You also have languages that use every single possible combination of quotation marks... so you can't just say EM DASH + RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTE stick together 100% of the time.

Examples of EM DASHES in the middle of text are common, like:
  • The man—“Tiny”—was the size of a mountain. (English)
  • The man—”Tiny”—was the size of a mountain. (Finnish)

so if you "fixed" linebreaking for dialogue, you'd "break it" for parentheticals!

(Not to mention, the linebreaking algorithms should/would have to be context- + language-aware!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Does a printed copy of the 1910 edition do the same thing?
Yes, the printed copy has that. See Page 99 in this Archive.org version where graycyn's first example was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Is it correct to have the em-dash like it is ion the eBook?
Looks like every piece of Dialogue got its own new paragraph, so they split:
  • Action/Beats
    • + EM DASH
  • Dialogue

Example:

Quote:
Ben shivered as if the mere thought hurt him, as he said, in a grim tone,—

“They might have cut Sanch's off.”

[...]

Ben looked discouraged, but Miss Celia cheered him up again by saying,—

“Yes, he could. My father had a friend who left a little dog in Paris; [...]”
Usage of that kind wouldn't be done in modern Style Guides, but back then they did lots of different things.

Nowadays, it would most likely be done like this:

Quote:
Ben shivered as if the mere thought hurt him.

“They might have cut Sanch's off,” Ben said in a grim tone.

[...]

Ben looked discouraged, but Miss Celia cheered him up again.

“Yes, he could,” Miss Celia said. “My father had a friend who left a little dog in Paris; [...]”
or:

Quote:
“They might have cut Sanch's off,” Ben grimly said, shivering as if the mere thought hurt him.

[...]

Ben looked discouraged, but Miss Celia cheered him up again.

“Yes, he could,” Miss Celia said. “My father had a friend who left a little dog in Paris; [...]”
or:

Quote:
Ben shivered as if the mere thought hurt him. “They might have cut Sanch's off.”

[...]

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 05-08-2022 at 11:10 PM.
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