[Hitch]

Originally Posted by issybird

Yup.

Yes, if the core of the book, the central characters, the entire plot idea, etc. is too similar to something else, even if that something else is new (hell, particularly if it's new), sometimes it's best to just give it up.

I’m always reminded of the Nicholas Blake mystery, A Penknife in My Heart (1958) which ripped off the plotline of Patricia Highsmith’s Strangers on a Train (1950). He claimed ignorance which I think is suspect because there was also the Hitchcock film of 1951 and in any case, it’s the business of a serious author, even a serious mystery author, to keep abreast of the seminal. Certainly his editor/publisher should have saved him from himself.

Not a good look for the future poet laureate Cecil Day-Lewis.

Exactly and it tainted Blake forever. I mean, how could anyone miss it, particularly given the notoriety of SOAT? If it hadn't been made into the Hitchcock movie, sure, maybe. I've seen midlister plots show up elsewhere and frankly, I've seen self-pubbed plots--in which I may be the only person alive, outside of the author's mum, who's seen it, because it's surely never been bought--show up in other books later, far better done which turn around and sell. It's hard for author A to argue deliberate plagiarism on a book that never sold 5 copies. But SOAT? Gimme a break.

Here's the thing though--having seen it myself, up close and personal--I'm inclined to believe him. Before I'd seen it, not so much, but as Hallinan says, only so many ideas floating around in the zeitgeist and ether at any given time and the muse may well whap several folks over the head on the same day. :-)

Originally Posted by Quoth

The folks that make Star Trek were offered (and refused) Babylon 5. Then they did DS9. It's not a rip-off or copy, but certainly they might not have thought of it without B5.

I freely confess a wild love for Bab5. Defied expectations, turned some tropes on their heads (human-looking aliens always good, alien-looking aliens always bad) and G'Kar was way too cool for TV. :-) (A poster on the old alt.fan.dune list used to say that all the time, speaking of plagiarism...) Sure, it wasn't hardcore sci-fi; some space opera and all that, but still. I remember being wildly impressed at the time with Straczynski's long-term plot planning. I mean, that's something that you absolutely never saw back then. (And barely see now, despite claims to the contrary...) Hard to believe it's coming up on 30 years since it first aired.

Also two authors can be inspired by books or films ages ago, which they may even have forgotten.

Uh...the Banacek episode with the trains--was a definite, er, "homage" to whats-is-face's book with the swapped boxes. Thorpe Hazel, right? Whitechurch? One of those authors that only nerds know? (Particularly railway nerds!) Let's face it, the writers there could reliably count on the fact that the number of Hazel readers wasn't even remotely close to, say, Poirot readers or Holmes' or or or...

And you need to connect with the culture of the reader. A certain amount of stereotypical to trope content is inevitable. There any number of stories and settings, but not many distinct plots.

Sure. I mean, the Hero's Journey is the Hero's Journey, whether your protag is Paul Atreides or Harry Potter. Two hugely different books/sets of books, but at their core...not so different.

The Greek legend of Orpheus was in some cases deliberately copied by European writers in the Middle Ages. Other Celtic and Norse tales may simply have similar elements because they are close to universal ideas.
Note that I'm pretty ignorant of folk stories of the Americas and Africa, know hardly any Indian and only a few famous Chinese. Some Persian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman. Our Norse stuff is mostly from a couple of Icelandic sources.
https://tvtropes.org/

I've always thought that Norse stuff was woefully neglected by pop culture, but of course, our buddy Thor (who was, in myth, a total dick, mind you) has surely resurrected that. I keep running into books with Norse gods, myths, etc., left-right-and center. Even the whats-its guy, Rick Riordan, did an entire short series about a character tied into the Norse dieties and myths.

Hitch