[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Brilliant! Thank you. I'd never noticed that option before.

Nice. Although it's really a headscratcher. We've been talking about that dropdown for years.

And you've been on Regex mode this entire time?

You may want to doublecheck some of your previous books for errors. You may have accidentally unleashed a rogue regex while searching/replacing other things.

Example. In Regex, the symbol:

. = Any character

so you may have done a search/replace for:

P.T. Barnum

but in Regex mode, that would look for:

P + any character + T + any character + space + Barnum

It's why we typically put warnings in the "Regex Examples" thread to not "Replace All".

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Brilliant! I won't have to step through one-at-a-time anymore - thanks!

Although that regex would then miss the typo " ..When" but hopefully you have a grammarchecker or something else that catches that.

... I've spent too much of my life correcting all these ellipsis issues, so the more time I can save everyone else, the better!

Originally Posted by Turtle91

There are definite issues using the "spaces between dots" technique especially when using text-to-speech or other accessibility functions:

Not all TTS says "dot". Most just pause between periods.

And I'd say this is heavily outweighed by an ellipsis on a line by itself (bad line-breaking):

I said this is an example
…

(Remember that line-breaks happen MUCH more often in ebooks compared to print. Think cellphone screen, very thin/tall.)

Originally Posted by Turtle91

I understand that the actual ellipses character display changes with the font selected... but isn't that the point?

No. A properly designed ellipsis should seamlessly fit with periods (in both spacing/size).

For more ellipsis typography info, see Robert Bringhurst: "The Elements of Typographic Style":



(Also look closely at his examples on the side.)

Chapter 5.2.7. Use ellipses that fit the font.

Most digital fonts now include, among other things, a prefabricated ellipsis (a row of three baseline dots). Many typographers nevertheless prefer to make their own. Some prefer to set the three dots flush … with a normal word space before and after. Others prefer . . . to add thin spaces between the dots. Thick spaces (M/3) are prescribed by the Chicago Manual of Style, but these are another Victorian eccentricity. In most contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too wide.

Flush-set ellipses work well with some fonts and faces but not with all. At small text sizes – in 8 pt footnotes, for example – it is generally better to add space (as much as M/5) between the dots. Extra space may also look best in the midst of light, open letterforms, such as Baskerville, and less space in the company of a dark font, such as Trajanus, or when setting in bold face. [...]

In English (but usually not in French), when the ellipsis occurs at the end of a sentence, a fourth dot, the period, is added and the space at the beginning of the ellipsis disappears…. When the ellipsis combines with a comma, exclamation mark or question mark, the same typographic principle applies. Otherwise, a word space is required fore and aft.

In Print, many typographers manually create ellipses by using periods + thin spaces between. So this:

…

should look the same as:

. + . + . (Tight)
. + THIN SPACE + . + THIN SPACE + . (Loose)

and this:

.…
….

should look the same as:

. + . + . + . (Tight)
. + THIN SPACE + . + THIN SPACE + . + THIN SPACE + . (Loose)

(In ebooks, these "rarer spaces" have many problems, so I'd avoid using them.   is your safest bet.)

Originally Posted by Turtle91

If it looks inconsistent, then the font wasn't designed very well, wasn't it?

Exactly.

So ebook users fiddling around with all different types of fonts, you're going to get a mess.

In Print, you have full control over the visuals, so if the font's ellipsis/kerning sucks, you can always work around it. (And manually adjust.)

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Personally I never use 4 dots, or ellipses plus a period, or period plus an ellipses (in a book, mind.....I get completely carried away in a post...... ):

It's used very often in Non-Fiction.

When you cut text in a quotation and the quotation actually begins/ends in a period. This is why you get:

….
…?
…!

In the European-style, this "cut text" is more easy to spot:

[…].
[…]?
[…]!

What causes confusion is trying to overload the ellipsis + gobble up punctuation.

Side Note: I just answered this one on Reddit a month ago:

/r/writing: "How do you use Ellipses with other punctuation?"

The person tried to argue for a "..?" or a ".?!" (where all 3 dots merge).

Another example:

TeX Stack Exchange: "Typesetting exclamation+question+ellipsis (!.. ?.. ?!. !?.)"

(Over the years, I've even seen some try to use a double-dot ".." instead of an ellipsis: "A..Z".)

Originally Posted by Turtle91

2) it just seems silly to use 4... why not have 5 dots..... or 6-9 dots ....... (6-9 dots could just be 3 ellipses together!)

The 4-dot ellipsis has its purpose, very common in Non-Fiction.

5+ dots were used in the past to show "lots of text missing". Modern books don't really use this, but old books do. And in inconsistent fonts, the ellipsis character + 2-or-more dots looks even more ridiculous.

(Hence one of the reasons why I completely normalized to PERIODS + NON-BREAKING SPACES, since it can consistently handle any # of dots + any mix of punctuation before/after + any font! And no line-breaking issues!)

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Anyway, not trying to cause an argument...there are plenty of threads that do that....... just making sure people realize this isn't JUST about personal preference........ it can have accessibility impacts.

Hence links to many of the previous ellipsis threads.

All the pros/cons have been discussed many times over the years.