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Old 03-25-2019, 09:30 PM   #53
Tex2002ans
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Posts: 2,306
Karma: 13057279
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master View Post
So, I'm curious. Since I started this thread, and wrote these articles—
[...]
—has anything changed?
What's the purpose of these blank lines?

If they're intended for spacing, then I agree with JSWolf, use CSS with padding-top:

Spoiler:
Code:
.spacebreak {
  padding-top: 2em;
  text-indent: 0;
}
Code:
<p>Some random line.</p>

<p class="spacebreak">This has a blank gap above.</p>


padding-top doesn't get gobbled up if it occurs at the top of a screen, where margin-top typically does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master View Post
Is there a better way to indicate section breaks that is honored by the majority of e-readers yet?
If the blanks are intended as actual scenebreaks, then I would again stress murg's post #12 where he mentioned centered asterisks.

Spoiler:
HTML:

Code:
<p class="scenebreak">* * *</p>
CSS:

Code:
p.scenebreak {
    text-align: center;
    margin-top: 1em;
    margin-bottom: 1em;
}


Using symbols for a scenebreak ensures maximum compatibility, and the advantages are numerous:
  • Works with/without CSS.
  • Works in any format.
    • Even survives conversion from EPUB->TXT.
  • Works with any font.
  • Can know a new section has started, even if it lands at the very bottom/top of screen.
  • Accessibility.

I've discussed scenebreaks (and why you should use asterisks) in these Reddit posts:

"How to Format Scene Breaks?"
"Any tips on adding ornamental art in Sigil or Scrivener?"

I'll reproduce a lot of the reasoning here:

Works With/Without CSS

A blank gap + no-indent based purely on CSS fails in readers that:
  • Override Publisher settings
    • Moon+ Reader is a famous one.
  • Don't support CSS.

Asterisks can survive and make sense with/without CSS:

Test1 (Asterisks)

Click image for larger version

Name:	Test1.png
Views:	290
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	170398Click image for larger version

Name:	Test1Without.png
Views:	290
Size:	27.3 KB
ID:	170399

Test2 (No Asterisks)

Click image for larger version

Name:	Test2.png
Views:	277
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	170400Click image for larger version

Name:	Test2Without.png
Views:	296
Size:	27.3 KB
ID:	170401

You can see Test2Without (the example in the bottom right). The new scene looks no different than any other paragraph.

Also see below (many alternate formats don't use CSS).

Works In Any Format

Remember, ebooks can be converted into many different formats (NOT just EPUB/MOBI).

Asterisks can survive EPUB->TXT conversion + can even survive "non-standard" formats such as forum posts. This allows you to easily copy/paste a chapter from your book onto MobileRead for example.

Works With Any Font

Why use asterisks over other many other symbols? I'll quote one of my Reddit posts above:

Quote:
The reasons why asterisks work best is it's basic ASCII... so pretty much any device and any font anywhere would have it included.

All 136/136 fonts on my computer have the asterisk *.

When you get to more obscure symbols, it's more likely those fonts may be missing it:

For example, see "Fleuron" on Wikipedia:
  • ❧ Rotated Floral Heart Bullet (U+2767)

20/136 of the fonts installed on my computer have that.

Ereaders have even less fonts to choose from, and usually aren't the best at "falling back" to another font (like Firefox/Chrome+Word/LibreOffice might).
Asterisks don't rely on embedded fonts, and would work with whatever the font the user chooses.

Top/Bottom of Screen

I somewhat touched on this with the padding-top/margin-top discussion.

Also see this article on EPUB Secrets: "User Experience: What Works, and How?", heading "Section Breaks":

Quote:
Section Breaks

Or narrative pauses or time breaks or whatever you choose to call them: Simon Collinson brought this up:

Quote:
This is the sort of thing I would very much like to see print typesetters stop doing (see also: using white space for section breaks) #eprdctn

— Simon Collinson (@Simon_Collinson) February 21, 2018
I’ve always tried to convince editors and clients to use some kind of marker to indicate a pause. It’s common in print to add a few small bullets or an ornament when a break falls at the bottom of a page, just so the reader knows to breathe before entering a new timeframe at the top of the next page (a flush-left paragraph may not be enough to clue them in).

In an ebook that pause is very likely to fall at the bottom of a screen; we have no way of knowing how our readers are setting their preferences. So, to me, it’s a no-brainer to add something as an aid.
This doesn't just effect "screens" in an ebook, it also effects all paged formats as well (even Print books).

If typographers use a blank gap, they must be very careful that new scenes don't fall at the very bottom/top of a page.

Print has full control over the final layout... ebooks... no.

Fleurons handle that problem completely.

Accessibility

Blank paragraphs or "visual only" clues are absolutely awful for Accessibility or Text-to-Speech (TTS) reasons as well.

TTS will continue reading the next paragraph no different from the previous one. No pause, no nothing.

Have you ever read a book in Moon+ Reader with TTS that relied on blank gaps? I have... and the characters teleport around. One paragraph they're eating a chicken sandwich in their kitchen, and next you're on a spaceship flying towards the moon.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 03-25-2019 at 09:53 PM.
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