[gmw]

Originally Posted by gmw

I don't know enough law to argue the point "under law", and I can see that mortgages, being contracts, may exist where simple ownership does not apply. However, it is (or was) common enough for mortgages to exist were one side is said to own the mortgage. Thus, under the English language definition of "property", even if not the law, a mortgage can be "the thing owned" - which is all that is required for me to call it "property" in a non-legal sense. [...]

Because it's a Saturday and it's too hot to do anything outside ...

First some definitions from The Free Dictionary's legal-dictionary:

Property = anything that is owned by a person or entity. Property is divided into two types: "real property" which is any interest in land, real estate, growing plants or the improvements on it, and "personal property" (sometimes called "personalty") which is everything else.

Personal Property = Personal property can be divided into two major categories: (1) corporeal personal property, including such items as animals, merchandise, and jewelry; and (2) incorporeal personal property, comprised of such rights as stocks, bonds, Patents, and copyrights.

I do notice that mortgage is not explicitly listed, but "such rights as" shows the list is not considered comprehensive. But let's move on...

Mortgage = A legal document by which the owner (i.e., the buyer) transfers to the lender an interest in real estate to secure the repayment of a debt, evidenced by a mortgage note. [...] a document in which the owner pledges his/her/its title to real property to a lender as security for a loan described in a promissory note.

Asset = Real or Personal Property, whether tangible or intangible, that has financial value and can be used for the payment of its owner's debts.

Instrument = A formal or legal written document; a document in writing, such as a deed, lease, bond, contract, or will. A writing that serves as evidence of an individual's right to collect money, such as a check.

cf. that "right to collect money" with the "rights" of Personal Property.

From my accounting lessons I know that a mortgage is considered an asset of the mortgagee, and I'd also say that a mortgage falls within the asset definition from the legal-dictionary site above (has value, can be used for payment of its owners debts). So the above definitions would seem to suggest that a mortgage is property, even in legal terms.

I am supposing that legal documents and discussions probably avoid using the word property to describe the mortgage because it would get very confusing to refer to the document itself as a property separate to the mortgaged property.

... Then again. I paid so much for the legal advice above, that I'm willing to guarantee this post to the same level