[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by davidrothman

There are plenty of other ways in which OpenReader will stand apart from other formats--this transcends the DRM issue. Meanwhile let the standard setters work the DRM out.

So you keep saying, but I don't see it. OpenReader format is just XML, which itself is just another data format.

I'm not saying that OpenReader is bad, but I fail to see where it offers anything above what we have today.

Originally Posted by davidrothman

There could also be limits on fees charged so as to keep the DRM costs a fraction of what they are now.

(X + Y % of X) is still > X.

So DRM will always cost more and offer less.

Originally Posted by davidrothman

Beyond security, bear in mind that the big DRM issues are usability and continued access, just as you seem to think; and both are on our radar screens. We enjoy close relations with the library world and have some very specific ideas in terms of making DRMed books forever accessible to their owners.

Then you are working toward an unobtainable goal. The ideas of DRM are not compatible with accessing books forever. You cannot have a locked book that is forever accessable.

What's copyright length now? 75 years past author's death? How many of us have files that go back even 30 years? One company that I used to work for had a room filled with tapes (9 track!) and removable disk packs, that they had to keep around because of data retention laws. But they had no hardware that could access any of the data on these media. Even NASA is having issues with being able to read the old data.

Are you telling me that you are going to create a data format that, when the book finally goes out of copyright (assuming that the Content Cartel allow that) in 100+ years that someone will be able to unlock the DRM and read it? When even NASA can't keep their data formats (with no DRM on them) up?

Originally Posted by davidrothman

Ron, I can see that DRM is your major issue, and if that's the case, I'd suggest you keep in mind our personal hostility toward the technology.

I am, and I am trying to tell you that you are working toward something that is not obtainable.

Current, my major issue is that content providers (like eReader) demand that I pay hardcover price for an eBook that is locked up effectively forever, gives me no guarantee that I can read that book next year, and does not permit me to pass that eBook on to someone else.

In the future, my issue is that once the book finally falls into the Public Domain that there will be no non-DRMed version and that the book will continue to be locked even though the content is Public Domain.

I simply don't see any way to provide DRM (Well, DRM that can actually protect the content) and keep our rights as well.

Originally Posted by davidrothman

Also, remember our eagerness to let publishers avoid DRM, while at the same time having better, gentler DRM for pubishers insisting on it.

There's no such thing. Either there is DRM and it is not kind and gentle. Or you have something that is kind and gentle, but so week it's a joke DRM (in which case, why have it?).

Originally Posted by davidrothman

And so, without DRM, there's no hope of an e-book standard that the big publishers will go for, alas, and that's of big concern to me since they hold the rights to so many modern classics.

Baen disagrees and the reason that the Content Cartel holds so many modern classics is because our copyright laws are out of whack with reality - but that's another topic.

Originally Posted by davidrothman

Meanwhile, at least with OpenReader around, you'll *know* that DRM will be just an option for publishers.

Just as it is for any other format.

Originally Posted by davidrothman

With the proprietary formatters, you don't know what the future will hold--whereas with the OpenReader scenario your "vote DRM out" approach would work just fine if that's what users wanted.

But I already do. I don't buy from eReader. I buy from Fictionwise, and only those titles with no DRM.