[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

I can't argue with that - which is why I don't understand what the point is of debating whether <i> or <em> is the 'right' option. It looks more like a philosophical/religious debate than a practical one. Everything I read with the eyeballs displays both as italic. Everything I listen to ignores both equally.

The Accessibility topic is so large and could be tackled from a billion different angles. If you want to be boring, you could read the Wikipedia or W3C page on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accessibility
https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility.php

or there are plenty of more friendly articles (but broad and nowhere near as detailed, or only focus on tackling one small portion [blind]):

https://transitscreen.com/blog/acces...-vision-users/

I definitely know I have written about this stuff in various places over the years... I would just have to go hunt down those posts/emails. :P

Side Note: I personally point back to this video, "Ron McCallum: How technology allowed me to read":

https://www.ted.com/talks/ron_mccall..._read#t-608240

I would say that is probably one of the videos that gave myself a kick in the butt to focus on Web Accessibility. :P

- - - - -

Let me just bring up a few of the latest related ebook topics off the top of my head, and you may be able to draw some parallels:

1. "Stupid Amazon Read Inside is making my book look hideous. Let me just change my <h1-6> to <p class="heading">. I mean... it LOOKS the same and ACTS the same. What's the problem?"

If you properly have your document marked up using headings, someone on a Screen Reader could use easily jump around the document... not so with <p> tags.

Side Note: I am also surprised that BetterRed hasn't said anything about reading books with keyboard shortcuts... he is CONSTANTLY pointing out programs that don't fit his "never-let-my-fingers-get-off-the-keyboard" mentality.

There are also several benefits which may not be immediately apparent:

For example, Sigil's TOC Generation, Toxaris's Tools to import the EPUB->DOCX and automatically have a navigable DOCX, Calibre (and who knows what other future converters/tools there might be), [...]. That is one of my personal motivations for properly marked up documents, the tools/programs help me speed up my workflow.

2. That age-old "debate" of HTML Tables or images of tables (here is just one of the threads):

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=223062

I am all for HTML Tables... one of the reasons is better accessibility.

3. Marking up HTML with proper lang attributes (here is one of the latest threads where an author brought up an example):

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...57#post3465457

JSWolf thought it was absolute hogwash... but there are also benefits to using it NOW.

For example, very recently Calibre added Multi-Language Spellchecking (VERY HELPFUL). Or a word processor (Microsoft Word) might also take it into account so you don't get all those red squigglies!

In the now -> near-future, support of CSS hyphens will become better:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...eb/CSS/hyphens

(For example, for decades LaTeX has already had actual proper Hyphenation for most popular languages. Web Browsers are WAY behind on this topic.)

In probably the far future, Text-to-Speech might take into speaking in different languages, so you can have a book mixed with English/Spanish and be read with the proper voices. (I am not too sure of any current ereader that does this.)

There is also the new EPUB+CSS3 speech stuff too:

https://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/
https://idpf.github.io/a11y-guidelin...ts/speech.html

And in the here-and-now, there are Search Engines which use lang information (Google.fr prioritizes French websites, while Google.de prioritizes German websites). I don't see why this couldn't be expanded to enhance search inside EPUBs.

Side Note: I would probably say the <em> <-> <i> is very nuanced and may not be as high a priority as some of those other things... but that doesn't mean you could toss it to the side. I would say the more popular CSS3 speech becomes, the more this distinction will become important (and more people thinking about it when creating documents). :P

Side Note #2: As a semi-related example, I was also recently complaining about many websites becoming WAY too Javascript-heavy (I personally use Firefox+NoScript).

Many web designers would just design the site to look pretty, and never take into account, "Hmmm, what if someone visits without all my fancy Javascript?"

Many news websites which refuse to load because they use Javascript to load the entire articles... or they cut the article and force you to push on a button to "See More" (Javascript). Or simple websites that just completely explode when there is no Javascript. Or forums where you can't advance throughout the next page in a topic.

I want to smash these websites in the face with a hammer!

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Someone please show me a real world example where<i> & <em> and <b> & <strong> are different. I've seen lots of eBooks that use <em> & <strong> and they are used just the same as you would use <i> & <b>.

1. Just look at examples where there can be overlap.

Let me just commandeer the example of "alternate voice" from the HTML5Doctor link, with one minor tweak:

<b class="character">Deckard</b>: <i class="voiceover">The report would be routine retirement of a replicant which didn't make me feel any better about shooting a <em>woman</em> in the back. There it was again. Feeling, in myself. For her, for Rachael.</i>

The <i> can be used to mark the "alternate voice" (character's thoughts, etc. etc.)... but there was an actual emphasis on the word "woman".

2. In Non-Fiction, let us say you are citing a book. The Book Title may be italics:

<p>Tanaka, Shelly. <i>On Board the Titanic: What It Was Like When the Great Liner Sank</i>. New York, NY: Hyperion/​Madison Press, 1998.<p>

... that is not emphasis, and if you used <em> there, you would be completely wrong.

3. Let us say you were discussing a great author:

<p>As Tex2002ans said in his 2017 book, <i class="booktitle">100 Greatest Examples</i>:</p>

<blockquote><p>I am <em>amazing</em>.</p></blockquote>

4. In Mathematics, Bold and Italics is used heavily.

Take for example, the constant e. It would make zero sense to have the code for the constant be: <em>e</em>. There are also plenty of variables that are bold, for example, vectors in Physics.

(There are also examples of Text-to-Speech Math... that is a whole other complicated can of worms though and requires properly marked material.)

Side Note: On a semi-related note to this, there was also massive discussion when adding all of the different variants of maths symbols to Unicode + OpenType Math:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathem..._Symbols_block

There are ~15 different variants of Maths symbols (Mixes of Serif/Sans/Typewriter/Double-struck/Script/Fraktur + Upright/Italic + Normal/Bold).

Why was it introduced into Unicode itself? Text-to-Speech was one of the large motivations (amongst many others).

A = 𝐀 = 𝐴 = 𝑨 = 𝒜 = 𝓐 = 𝔄 = 𝔸 = 𝕬 = 𝖠 = 𝗔 = 𝘈 = 𝘼 = 𝙰?

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Very useful links into what is going on with HTML5 and by extension ePub 3. Particularly with regard to languages and other thematic uses.