Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazykiwi
I didn't forget them, well at least western opera and operetta, as they are more heavily based in musical traditions with the lyrics are generally written after and according to the music. That said, lyric poetry can and always has been later set to music as operatic librettos.
Heh. "Only popular in China?" You are aware exactly how big that audience is? I guess it doesn't count, since it doesn't agree with you.
That is simply not true William. Five minutes on virtually any search engine would tell you that the definitions of the literary terms "Dramatic Poetry" and "Lyric Poetry" have always included either musical accompaniment or flat out singing.
I don't understand why it's so difficult to admit that there are other opinions on where the line is between lyrics and poetry, or that there even is a line. You seem to be conflating "American readers of literature (particularly those named William)" with "All readers of literature" when that's simply not the case. Which again, is my whole point. There are a lot of diverging opinions and some of the people who hold those differing opinions happen to be members of the Svenska Akadamien. And it's their decision, not yours, what is "Literature" according to the terms of Nobel's will.
But I'm done arguing, you've made your opinion quite clear.
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Well, you may be confused because you seem to think I am American. I am not, but does not American culture have great infuence in the world, more so than the culture of any other country? I doubt if very many people in much of the world ever ever heard of the Svenska Akadamien. Probably you look at things from very much of a Swedish perspective.
We can argue all we want about what is literature and what is not; in my opinion some song lyrics could be poetry; you can put together two sentences or part sentences that may or may not ryhme and call it poetry.
How about this one from "The Literary Life Of Thingum Bob" by Edgar Allan Poe:
"'To pen an Ode upon the 'Oil-of-Bob'
Is all sorts of a job.
(Signed) Snob."
"Protest songs" are always political; the lyrics appeal to people because they express the political or societal views they hold. When Dylan came along he was embraced by a certain segment of the population and they came to regard him as their "spokesman." Those type of people were out demonstrating against war and for peace. They often marched in support of dictators like Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro and others before they knew of their atrocities.
No doubt Bob Dylan has a huge audience who must like his songs; he has sold about 100 million records (although the figures for record sales are notoriously inaccurate). Obviously anybody who buys his records must like them; no doubt some of them think his lyrics are great.
So Chinese opera is popular in China so somehow that makes it literature? In the first place, Chinese opera is not popular with everyone in China, I doubt if it has an audience a small fraction as big as the latest Hollywood movie in China. Chinese opera is an ancient, highly stylized form, as is Japanese Noh. It is part of Chinese culture and to the extent it is popular, that is only in China. I have never been to China, but I have spent time in Japan and would bet that at least 90% of Japanese have never seen a Noh play.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion (at least in some countries). Obviously your opinion does not jibe with mine. I don't think Bob Dylan's lyrics are literature, and even if they are they are not deserving of the Nobel Prize for literature