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notimp · 04-10-2016, 03:58 AM

@darryl: Ignoring the issue, or me - for that matter, doest fix it.

Also - I am insistent, that I caught you rewriting what I am saying, just to be able to stifle an argument I never made.

@eschwartz: I was refering to this instance of what at least for the person experiencing it - looked like selective censorship: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=410

If you'd care to explain what happened there, I'd be all ears. But also - this was one stray sentence addressing some of the community culture in here.

edit: I just realized, that this seems to be a reference to another (Amazon owned) forum ( https://kdp.amazon.com/community/cat...a?categoryID=4 ) censoring the discussion about the .kfx format - if this is the case, please accept my apologies - it was not my intention, to misrepresent mobilereads policies. And thank you for putting this right. As someone who wasnt aware that this Amazon platform existed (if you dind't either, you havent missed much.. ) - I blame it on missing context in this specific case.

If I had known - that Amazon itself has shown signs of actively censoring all discussion about their .kfx file format - I wouldn't have played it as a backhanded byline against interests in here - I would have started the argument with this peculiar fact - front and center.

This is the bigger point:

While browsing through the thread again to be able to link to this posting for reference - I stumbled over several instances of "old guard members" describing in detail - that Amazons design decisions, in principle - were good (from page borders not being more customizeable to the reasonings that may be behind the .kfx format) - that were entirely unreflective fluff (not that aggressive as a statement, if you actually read them) that suggested - that most of what Amazon is doing follows a conscious deliberation as to "what is good for the customer".

From my point of view - currently this fundamentally is not the case

- The point here is, that none of the Amazon press releases in the recent past followed the Cluetrain Manifesto rules of addressing the public but were basically marketing making up new storylines. None of you probably has spoken with an actual product engineer for a while - after the LED hype in this industry came "dust and water proof" and contrast numbers that were inflated by "doubling the blackness of black", Amazon literally has tried to remove the ability to produce books from the public sphere - they have introduced a content delivery default that hurts this scene as well as the public at large (and we all agree on that) - yet this "Amazon is looking out for its customer" - principle lingers on... My argument is, that this is brand loyalty and nothing more. -

and by not being more vigilant and frankly more critical about industry moves in the past - this community has missed a trick or two. When people in here were arguing, that minimal boarder sizes (the way Amazon chooses them for you) are "good for the customer" - because they make content more readable - they chose to ignore that line length (characters per line) on 6" eReaders is well below the paperback standard, therefore impacting readability at large. Amazon here is counting on people actively being more impressed by seeing a layout that resembles that of a paperback - than them actually counting the length of a line that can be displayed on their Kindles. Or showing any understanding for the concept of adaptability that has to be in place for bigger font sizes.

Also - again, it was a feature we once had - and when Amazon took it away - people in here tend to celebrate it as a "consumer friendly" move first - and only later think about the actual implications. The same goes for counterarguing against criticism brought forward by your community about new format standards - in a way that goes like this "I don't think Amazons intent was to worsen your reading experience, ..." - when the actual argument brought forward was that they exactly did that - and context about their "intent" is just the roundabout way of moderating the discussion into "we all have to make compromises" territory.

If a new problem is evaluated - maybe, just maybe don't have your first reaction be to shut the discussion about it down as quickly as possible.

I'm not naming names - but, If you wan't to, just read trough the .kfx thread and you will find the instances.

On a more private note - dont try to write me out of the discussion in here, with nods to instances that actually didn't happen. I never once pulled the "I am not a native english speaker" card for example . It was used as a means to belittle my core argument before, when some of you guys saw the opportunity to do so. Of course - now that I provided a more general look at what happened in here from a social POV around the release of the new Amazon format - I simply must misunderstand the general mindset in here again - because of the language barrier..

This is literally the most petty reaction towards actual criticism you could have brought forward. As always - I have to address this as a form of "attack ad" type arguing. But I dont recognize it as a valid point in the discussion.

And if you don't care to have it - please don't make a point in announcing that you are not willing to do so and by that provide a social president as to why others should just ignore this argument as well. This is creating fractions ("rallying the troops" so to speak), which I am not interested in.

Don't stifle the argument - play it out. Or at least, let it play out.

Criticism isn't always a bad thing. Or as some of you like to put it - "stirring things up".

Under the "Amazon knows best" paradigm, even having a choice becomes increasingly looked down upon - because its not "as easy for the customer". Before you follow this principle, step back and look at it first.

This community increasingly becomes one that cheers, when their room, scope or freedom of action is actually reduced. And thats a curious thing - to say the least. The "values" question has to be asked at some point along this path.

edit: A community where you only "whisper" that Amazon is actively censoring discussion around their main file format on their Kindles - but the actual fact is never seen as something worthy of a discussion - or being worth taking an actual stance against. So which is it? You didn't know, you didn't care - or you dind't want to?

"Amazon would never..." doesnt work as a "catchphrase" anymore, in many aspects.

edit2: Also - I am fine with the idea that this doesnt become a hotbed of controversy each time I post something new in this thread.

I am simply over the fact that this community seemingly doesn't even want to look at the developments that happen seemingly on the sidelines of what it is concerned about.

Part of my motivation to post in here again was - seeing, that the .kfx conversion plugin was released - just to be met with the usual indifference as to what it enables and what it certainly does not.

I'll provide the context, once in a while - if you don't care to. I want people to care about what happens on a more structural level also. They don't have to always agree with my position - but they should talk about the issues this industry is facing and the paths it chose to follow.

Get engaged, have a concept of what is happening - knowing all the technicalities, but also putting them aside once in a while and looking at the bigger picture.

And just to be upfront about it - I plan to post about this sort of stuff more regularly in here - when I see a need to, because of certain ongoing developments.

As a valuable member of this community, but also as someone that holds up a mirror to it, once in a while.

04-10-2016, 03:58 AM	#343
notimp Addict Posts: 248 Karma: 892441 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: K2i	@darryl: Ignoring the issue, or me - for that matter, doest fix it. Also - I am insistent, that I caught you rewriting what I am saying, just to be able to stifle an argument I never made. @eschwartz: I was refering to this instance of what at least for the person experiencing it - looked like selective censorship: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=410 If you'd care to explain what happened there, I'd be all ears. But also - this was one stray sentence addressing some of the community culture in here. edit: I just realized, that this seems to be a reference to another (Amazon owned) forum ( https://kdp.amazon.com/community/cat...a?categoryID=4 ) censoring the discussion about the .kfx format - if this is the case, please accept my apologies - it was not my intention, to misrepresent mobilereads policies. And thank you for putting this right. As someone who wasnt aware that this Amazon platform existed (if you dind't either, you havent missed much.. ) - I blame it on missing context in this specific case. If I had known - that Amazon itself has shown signs of actively censoring all discussion about their .kfx file format - I wouldn't have played it as a backhanded byline against interests in here - I would have started the argument with this peculiar fact - front and center. This is the bigger point: While browsing through the thread again to be able to link to this posting for reference - I stumbled over several instances of "old guard members" describing in detail - that Amazons design decisions, in principle - were good (from page borders not being more customizeable to the reasonings that may be behind the .kfx format) - that were entirely unreflective fluff (not that aggressive as a statement, if you actually read them) that suggested - that most of what Amazon is doing follows a conscious deliberation as to "what is good for the customer". From my point of view - currently this fundamentally is not the case - The point here is, that none of the Amazon press releases in the recent past followed the Cluetrain Manifesto rules of addressing the public but were basically marketing making up new storylines. None of you probably has spoken with an actual product engineer for a while - after the LED hype in this industry came "dust and water proof" and contrast numbers that were inflated by "doubling the blackness of black", Amazon literally has tried to remove the ability to produce books from the public sphere - they have introduced a content delivery default that hurts this scene as well as the public at large (and we all agree on that) - yet this "Amazon is looking out for its customer" - principle lingers on... My argument is, that this is brand loyalty and nothing more. - and by not being more vigilant and frankly more critical about industry moves in the past - this community has missed a trick or two. When people in here were arguing, that minimal boarder sizes (the way Amazon chooses them for you) are "good for the customer" - because they make content more readable - they chose to ignore that line length (characters per line) on 6" eReaders is well below the paperback standard, therefore impacting readability at large. Amazon here is counting on people actively being more impressed by seeing a layout that resembles that of a paperback - than them actually counting the length of a line that can be displayed on their Kindles. Or showing any understanding for the concept of adaptability that has to be in place for bigger font sizes. Also - again, it was a feature we once had - and when Amazon took it away - people in here tend to celebrate it as a "consumer friendly" move first - and only later think about the actual implications. The same goes for counterarguing against criticism brought forward by your community about new format standards - in a way that goes like this "I don't think Amazons intent was to worsen your reading experience, ..." - when the actual argument brought forward was that they exactly did that - and context about their "intent" is just the roundabout way of moderating the discussion into "we all have to make compromises" territory. If a new problem is evaluated - maybe, just maybe don't have your first reaction be to shut the discussion about it down as quickly as possible. I'm not naming names - but, If you wan't to, just read trough the .kfx thread and you will find the instances. On a more private note - dont try to write me out of the discussion in here, with nods to instances that actually didn't happen. I never once pulled the "I am not a native english speaker" card for example . It was used as a means to belittle my core argument before, when some of you guys saw the opportunity to do so. Of course - now that I provided a more general look at what happened in here from a social POV around the release of the new Amazon format - I simply must misunderstand the general mindset in here again - because of the language barrier.. This is literally the most petty reaction towards actual criticism you could have brought forward. As always - I have to address this as a form of "attack ad" type arguing. But I dont recognize it as a valid point in the discussion. And if you don't care to have it - please don't make a point in announcing that you are not willing to do so and by that provide a social president as to why others should just ignore this argument as well. This is creating fractions ("rallying the troops" so to speak), which I am not interested in. Don't stifle the argument - play it out. Or at least, let it play out. Criticism isn't always a bad thing. Or as some of you like to put it - "stirring things up". Under the "Amazon knows best" paradigm, even having a choice becomes increasingly looked down upon - because its not "as easy for the customer". Before you follow this principle, step back and look at it first. This community increasingly becomes one that cheers, when their room, scope or freedom of action is actually reduced. And thats a curious thing - to say the least. The "values" question has to be asked at some point along this path. edit: A community where you only "whisper" that Amazon is actively censoring discussion around their main file format on their Kindles - but the actual fact is never seen as something worthy of a discussion - or being worth taking an actual stance against. So which is it? You didn't know, you didn't care - or you dind't want to? "Amazon would never..." doesnt work as a "catchphrase" anymore, in many aspects. edit2: Also - I am fine with the idea that this doesnt become a hotbed of controversy each time I post something new in this thread. I am simply over the fact that this community seemingly doesn't even want to look at the developments that happen seemingly on the sidelines of what it is concerned about. Part of my motivation to post in here again was - seeing, that the .kfx conversion plugin was released - just to be met with the usual indifference as to what it enables and what it certainly does not. I'll provide the context, once in a while - if you don't care to. I want people to care about what happens on a more structural level also. They don't have to always agree with my position - but they should talk about the issues this industry is facing and the paths it chose to follow. Get engaged, have a concept of what is happening - knowing all the technicalities, but also putting them aside once in a while and looking at the bigger picture. And just to be upfront about it - I plan to post about this sort of stuff more regularly in here - when I see a need to, because of certain ongoing developments. As a valuable member of this community, but also as someone that holds up a mirror to it, once in a while. Last edited by notimp; 04-10-2016 at 07:15 AM.