[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Not until more Readers are using a version of RMDSK that can handle MathML.

You agree that the EPUBs with MathML added will:

• still be EPUBs?
  
• still have the same copyright page?
  
• still have the same ISBN?
  
• still be based on the same physical version of the book?

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The reformatted edition is a different version/edition. It's not the same file. The original ePub still has not changed anything. The new ePub is a different file.

Look, your typical reader (and referencer) deals with the book at the book level. As eschwartz mentioned in Post #183, many readers have their devices set to just automatically download the latest editions:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...76#post3293676

The readers are completely oblivious to code changes that occur in the backend (be it minor or not so minor).

Side Note: It is sort of like Google Play (or iTunes). The latest version of the program downloads, and most people have no idea. If you get a new Android phone and go onto the Play Store now, you only get to download the latest/greatest version of the apps. You can't get older versions of the apps through them, and you have to rely on some third party to get the older APKs (or hope the programmer offers older versions on their site). (See my "Dreamy Note" + FileHippo talk below).

Some Side Thoughts

As a customer/reader/referencer:

• You most likely have zero access to older versions of the books
  
  • It would be really nice if stores like B&N/Amazon/Kobo would offer some functionality like this.
    
    • I am imagining something like FileHippo where they store the latest + all the older versions of the programs along with the date they were released.
      
    • Although this still wouldn't help little differences across stores (iTunes XML file, different cover requirements, [...]).
      
      • The EPUB on iTunes might be exactly the same besides a larger resolution cover. To most non-technical people, the iTunes EPUB and the B&N EPUB is the same exact book. (Yes, I know, technically, different file, different hash, but the text + code + important stuff is exactly the same).
        
    • Dreamy Note: If I was in my ultimate dream, I would aim for some sort of Github-type system, where everyone would upload their copies of the books, they would get uncompressed, all the individual files would be hashed, and you could see exact text/code differences. Alas, this would never happen (DRM) + you would be killed off by copyright.
      
• Typically there is no visual note of what exact version of the book you actually have (let alone some sort of consistent versioning system across stores/publishers/authors).
  
  • In the case of a physical book, you could be quite reliant on the copyright page stating the year the book was printed. You may also have a "Second/Third Printing".
    
    • This works/worked well because physical books are/were one and done. The publishers rarely touch the physical book ever again once printed.
      
  • In the case of ebooks, there are sometimes tens of revisions in a year (or over the lifetime of a book). Also, as stated above, there are sometimes even multiple ebook versions just due to different stores.
    
    • Sometimes the publisher might mark the ebook with some sort of version number on the copyright page... but there is no standard, and no guarantee that they would do this. And it does bupkus for the person referencing the work (you can't use that version number in the MLA/APA citation).
      

Now, let us go back to a few of the real life examples of the Byte Method getting thrown off.

Example #1

Let us go back to my A Dance with Dragons example.

Copyright 2011
ISBN: 978-0-553-90565-6
Published by Bantam Books

If I was citing the book in MLA, it would be this:

Martin, George R.R. A Dance with Dragons. New York: Bantam Books, 2011. EPUB file.

APA would be this:

Martin, George R.R. (2011). A Dance with Dragons [EPUB]. New York: Bantam Books.

Here are a few code changes from the one I bought the day it came out, and the version I downloaded a few years later:

He has written fantasy, horror, and science fiction, and for his sins spent ten years in Hollywood as a writer/producer, working on <em>The Twilight Zone, Beauty and the Beast</em>, and various feature films and television pilots that were never made.

He has written fantasy, horror, and science fiction, and for his sins spent ten years in Hollywood as a writer/producer, working on <em>The Twilight Zone</em>, <em>Beauty and the Beast</em>, and various feature films and television pilots that were never made.

Young Griff laughed, but the Halfmaester only said, &#x201C;Again.&#x201D; The boy obeyed, though he rolled his eyes along with his <em>zzzs</em> this time.

Young Griff laughed, but the Halfmaester only said, &#x201C;Again.&#x201D; The boy obeyed, though he rolled his eyes along with his <em>zzz</em>s this time.

Yandry thumped the wine cask down onto the desk.

Yandry thumped the wine cask down onto the deck.

Be <em>quiet!</em>

<em>Be quiet!</em>

Which EPUB version were these from?

Well I can tell you one thing for sure... all were from B&N and all were from the official EPUB version of A Dance with Dragons.

Somewhere along the line, the ADE "page" gets thrown off by a single page (1100 -> 1101).

If you cited the ADE "page" number, and I made sure to follow the MLA/APA citation (getting that specific publisher, that year, [...]), and I bought the EPUB today, the ADE page number would be wrong by 1.

Example #2

Let us go back to the pure code cleanup:

<p>
<span><span><span><span><span><span>The</span></span></span></span></span></span> 
<span><span><span><span><span><span>boy</span></span></span></span></span></span> 
<span><span><span><span><span><span>jumped</span></span></span></span></span></span> 
<span><span><span><span><span><span>over</span></span></span></span></span></span> 
<span><span><span><span><span><span>the</span></span></span></span></span></span> 
<span><span><span><span><span><span>moon.</span></span></span></span></span></span>
</p>

and:

<p>The boy jumped over the moon.</p>

Both of these appear exactly the same to the reader. Only way you could tell the difference is if you actually popped the book open and took a look at the code.

They are both EPUBs, the displayed text is the same, they are both based on the same print edition, there was no change in copyright, no change in ISBN, no change in anything the normal reader can see.

Enough of these code changes though, and the ADE "pages" or Kindle "locations" can get thrown off.

Even if you did take a look at the code inside, what would it matter, it would do you zero good. There is no database of all the different versions of the ones/tens/hundreds of variations of ebooks out there (as in my "Dreamy Note").

Example #3

Back to my Greek example.

Original Code:

[...] ψυχ<img alt="" src="../Images/0001.jpg" /> is certainly derived from ψ<img alt="" src="../Images/0002.jpg" />χω, to blow; [...]

Fixed:

[...] ψυχή is certainly derived from ψύχω, to blow; [...]

You agree that:

• The character 'ή' is smaller in filesize than the code "<img alt="" src="../Images/0001.jpg" />" (image of the Greek character)
• The character 'ύ' is smaller in filesize than the code "<img alt="" src="../Images/0002.jpg" />" (image of the Greek character)

The text displayed would be functionally equivalent, correct? (Although we all agree that the Greek characters as tiny images is absolute crap).

Multiply this by ones/tens/hundreds of Greek fixes, and the ADE/Kindle page numbers have the potential to be thrown off.

Some More Side Thoughts

I was looking around for MLA/APA citations on ebooks, and I stumbled across this:

https://academia.stackexchange.com/q...-are-available

A user, gman, posted this list of "preferred methods of referencing" (which he derived from the Chicago Manual of Style):

1. Page number (where stable ones exist/some new kindle books match the print edition)
2. Chapter or paragraph number
3. Section heading
4. descriptive phrase that follows the organizational divisions

Pretty interesting how great minds think alike.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Taking your example, if you had a pBook that was much reformatted as the ePub was, I would expect the page number to change in the newer edition.

If the publishers do actually go back and fix the physical book, they go through great lengths to use very careful copyediting + kerning + microtypography to keep the words/letters at the beginning/end of pages exactly (and I mean exactly) the same. (Typically they aim for keeping the characters at the beginning/end of lines the same so you would almost have no clue anything was different).

Typically they only make the most minor of changes (like a missing period, or a wrong quotation mark, misspelling, [...]).

Luckily, hideous InDesign code does not come out on the printed page. If it did, you would be horrified at the dreck that is behind the scenes. In digital files though, you get it all!