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notimp · 02-07-2016, 06:55 AM

@eschwartz:

I was under the distinct impression, that kindlegen created those dual packaged (kf8 and mobi) azw's (might not have been called azw3...) for quite some time. Should I be wrong?

(edit: Wait, let me use a comment JSWolf made back in 2013 to underline my point- https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=21

Shocking - I know...)

If Calibre packages the combi format as .mobi and not .azw I was wrong about that.

Also - if this community resorted to in fact treating .kf8 as a production standard, I am suddenly much less confused about the fond relationship you guys seem to have with Amazon formats.

In my circles I never recommended anything other than using ePub as the production format - treating both kf8 (azw3) and mobi as "end formats" only.

I understand the want to f.e. replace a cover in an azw3 without having it wander through the calibre conversion (i.e. replace every descriptor with calibre1-100) treatment - but have never realized to what extent you guys may actually have used it.

Hand editing the .css equivalent int .kf8 files was something I presumed most people wouldnt do - because of the obvious implications to the workflow (who produces a .kf8 separately from the .epub equivalent?), and that the internal structure of the file is much nicer than .mobi was - has implications for preservation -- but usability wise it really doesnt matter that much.

Then again - there is a discussion to be had if the .mobi interpreter in Kindles not recognizing pagemargin or even the text alignment tag for the default paragraph formating was a good or a bad thing.

Also - I'm happy that .azw3 exists as a reverse engineered format (in fact - I would be much happier if .kfx could ever reach that state - but also if Amazon would stop to arbitrarily invent file formats to get an advantage over the general public, or even publishers for starters) and if the format is that much more accessible and structured - that is a good thing from a creators point of view (allthough authoring still is and should be done in .epub

) - but if you look at the actual formating options we have lost on the device level - since JBPatch doesnt work anymore - I am not sure if I would have taken it as a tradeoff If someone had offered it to me.

Of course Amazon doesnt ask.

edit2:

Kindlegen never produced ".azw" files. It only produced .mobi files. Which at the time Amazon used to distribute as .azw - by arbitrarily renaming the file extension.

see: https://kdp.amazon.com/community/thr...threadID=44548

Those .mobi files always were the "combi files" we are talking about here, and not .mobi files in the sense of the file format before amazon "enhanced and renamed it".

So .mobi colloquially mostly was used for "real .mobi" files. .azw for Amazons "combi format". And .azw3 only for .kf8 as a stand alone.

I thought of .azw3 being the combi format as well, allthough thats actually wrong. I'm sure I used it correctly back in the day - but today, thats a definite slip up.

02-07-2016, 06:55 AM	#22
notimp Addict Posts: 248 Karma: 892441 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: K2i	@eschwartz: I was under the distinct impression, that kindlegen created those dual packaged (kf8 and mobi) azw's (might not have been called azw3...) for quite some time. Should I be wrong? (edit: Wait, let me use a comment JSWolf made back in 2013 to underline my point- https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=21 Shocking - I know...) If Calibre packages the combi format as .mobi and not .azw I was wrong about that. Also - if this community resorted to in fact treating .kf8 as a production standard, I am suddenly much less confused about the fond relationship you guys seem to have with Amazon formats. In my circles I never recommended anything other than using ePub as the production format - treating both kf8 (azw3) and mobi as "end formats" only. I understand the want to f.e. replace a cover in an azw3 without having it wander through the calibre conversion (i.e. replace every descriptor with calibre1-100) treatment - but have never realized to what extent you guys may actually have used it. Hand editing the .css equivalent int .kf8 files was something I presumed most people wouldnt do - because of the obvious implications to the workflow (who produces a .kf8 separately from the .epub equivalent?), and that the internal structure of the file is much nicer than .mobi was - has implications for preservation -- but usability wise it really doesnt matter that much. Then again - there is a discussion to be had if the .mobi interpreter in Kindles not recognizing pagemargin or even the text alignment tag for the default paragraph formating was a good or a bad thing. Also - I'm happy that .azw3 exists as a reverse engineered format (in fact - I would be much happier if .kfx could ever reach that state - but also if Amazon would stop to arbitrarily invent file formats to get an advantage over the general public, or even publishers for starters) and if the format is that much more accessible and structured - that is a good thing from a creators point of view (allthough authoring still is and should be done in .epub ) - but if you look at the actual formating options we have lost on the device level - since JBPatch doesnt work anymore - I am not sure if I would have taken it as a tradeoff If someone had offered it to me. Of course Amazon doesnt ask. edit2: Kindlegen never produced ".azw" files. It only produced .mobi files. Which at the time Amazon used to distribute as .azw - by arbitrarily renaming the file extension. see: https://kdp.amazon.com/community/thr...threadID=44548 Those .mobi files always were the "combi files" we are talking about here, and not .mobi files in the sense of the file format before amazon "enhanced and renamed it". So .mobi colloquially mostly was used for "real .mobi" files. .azw for Amazons "combi format". And .azw3 only for .kf8 as a stand alone. I thought of .azw3 being the combi format as well, allthough thats actually wrong. I'm sure I used it correctly back in the day - but today, thats a definite slip up. Last edited by notimp; 02-07-2016 at 08:27 AM.