[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The underlying issue is that the essence of management is communication. Management and engineering are different problem domains requiring different skill sets. I've rather lost track of the number of good engineers I've seen promoted to poor managers.

I know that. There's a little snag in my case.

Software Engineering is actually my second choice of occupation. My first one was being a language teacher, but couldn't finish that education due to having too much of a Dutch accent. I've also worked in customer support (advice, support, and handling complaints).

I know how to communicate... as well as be an engineer. Communication is not the problem. The stigma is. I hear it all the time. "You know, he's an engineer... so you shouldn't expect too much regarding communication." (And that's not only about me, I hear people saying that in general.)

The time where you throw a software engineer into a cellar with a computer and a month of food and drink if you want a program written is a little bit past.

All I could say was "No. It would already be belly up and out of business. The engineers lack the skills needed to successfully run a big, multi-national conglomerate like HP."

And all I can say is that being 'able to communicate' is not enough to be a good manager. If these people were good communicators or managers, they would have talked or managed themselves through tertiary education.

Most of the 'managers' I've met up until now weren't actually managers. They were called 'manager' or 'supervisor' or whatever, but in reality, they were the real manager's mouthpiece, or at best, an intermediary. Every time you'd ask a question or need something done, they would have to go check with THEIR boss before telling you 'their' decision.

I suspect most of the people in that first group ended up in such a position, and I actively *HATE* people like that. Mostly, they're just in my way.

DEC had superb engineers that designed highly advanced products, but the assumption seemed to be "If we build it, they will come", and the great idea wasn't accompanied by a clear idea of who might buy it and what they would do with it when they did.

You don't need managers to get a product sold. You need a sales department and marketing people. (And they are NOT the ones who decide how a piece of software of a device should work internally.)

When you get up into that range, the required skills for top management all revolve around money. You are probably a publicly held business with shareholders whose interest is in the value of their holding. You are a custodian of Other People's Money, and your job is to preserve and increase the value of their investment. You may have a degree in engineering. You better have one in finance, because that's where your efforts will be concentrated.

The people I was talking about have no degrees at all. Not in management, finances, OR engineering. So, they can't tell the engineers what to do, or how to do it. They can't run the companies finances. The only thing they could do is be an intermediate for the 'real' manager you almost never see.

I can respect a *real* manager. Someone who actively runs things, keeps things running, gets shit done when it needs doing, and is able to make well-informed decisions that entail a lot of responsibility, but I know few of those.