[hardcastle]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

As one who is so quick to stress the differences between digital and print, I would think it would be fairly easy for you see that some may not think "this is exactly the same." Mostly because it's NOT the same at all. You can't equate "making your own substitutions for words when reading out loud to your children from a book" with "letting your children read books where words were substituted FOR them by 3rd parties." The first is about controlling what you want your kids to hear, the second is about relinquishing that control to someone else: the someone else who's selling you the books.

As far as I'm concerned, the makers of Clean Reader are distributing three predetermined altered versions of copyrighted works (Clean, Cleaner, Squeaky). Doesn't matter that the original came along for the ride with those predetermined altered versions. Clean Reader decided, in advance, what words would be changed when Billy reads Book X on Setting 1. They decided for Billy and everyone else who reads Book X on Setting 1. Sounds like the distribution of unauthorized versions to me.

It sounds like a third party tool designed to complete a task that would be entirely legal manually. It's not difficult to create find/replace filters, but if someone's willing to pay for yours, I don't see who that hurts.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That there are people out there who believe that books are nothing more than a collection of tropes, and situations, and characters that can be just as effectively conveyed with any-old words baffles me. Baffles me.

The sanctity of the written word is just as baffling. Any piece of literature is just one of many potential ways to tell a single story, with both meaningful and arbitrary choices made throughout the piece. Authors are not gods. Their works are not sacred, and quality is not objective. The only thing that truly exists is communication to foster audience perception and comprehension, and what can be enhanced to further that goal.

People will already stay confined to reading books that subscribe to their beliefs. There's more than enough books in the world to create an echo chamber for anyone. Perhaps with a bit of remixing and redisplaying of the content, people caught in those echo chambers might be willing to take their first step outside.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Do we all agree that an author, completely and without question, has the right to agree to sell or NOT TO SELL abridged, shortened, condensed, etc., versions of his books? Or does s/he not have that right? That if the Chocolat author doesn't want anyone touching any word of her finished works, she has a right to NOT sell the rights to any version thereof? To preserve the books in a "pristine" condition, from the bookseller, at least?

The author can sell whatever they want, in accordance with their publisher and other various agreements made.

The reader has every right to do whatever the heck they want to that book when they buy it, excluding redistributing the work themselves. That includes abridging, shortening, condensing, etc. - even with the use of third party tools such as these.

I don't see repackaging a mobi into an epub as entirely different from the tools discussed here. In the most reductive, it's merely reformatting text to make it more useful to its audience.

EDIT: Noticed a few more things to discuss.

Originally Posted by Hitch

My point here is: anyone, anywhere, anytime, can find things that are "objectionable" in books. I truly find the whole Bella Swan "saga" FAR MORE objectionable, in many ways, than the vast bulk of bad language seen in typical modern fiction. I think it's more dangerous. It OFFENDS my own, personal, deeply-held beliefs. I'll bet that dozens of people who read that "pshaw" that idea. But how come I don't get an app to "fix" what's wrong with that book?

Because it's more difficult to create an app that changes the very structure of the plot and characterization than it is to find/replace bad words.

You have an interesting idea though. Legally it's a gray area, but what if you made an app that allowed people to upload remixes of their changes to a novel? Lord knows I've read enough books that were almost great, but ended poorly or had one or two scenes that just didn't add up. So create an app that allows you to share a package of JUST your changes to a novel, so that I could go download, say, a package from a guy who improves action sequences and makes them easier to follow. Awesome idea.

But considering the reaction to this app, I'm sure most app developers wouldn't touch any book modification with a 20 foot pole. No Twilight non-suckage app for you, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Hitch

You guys still aren't looking at the bigger picture, as I said. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? Who decides, what bits get changed? What if I make an app (Thank you, Ian Rankin--in your honor, I cruised over to Acorn last night on my Roku and watched Rebus) to kill off Rebus, for reality?

Sure...in a print book, you can go through and line out whatever you want. You can mark it up, tear out pages, burn it to keep you warm for 30 seconds. But what you're NOT doing, is doing that, for pay, for a third-party. You're only doing it for yourself.

To me...they're not QUITE the same. (And don't tell me that the Clean Reader "parents" weren't looking to make a buck!).

I see it as an apartment re-decorator. A third party does the work for me. Assuming I like what they generally do, I can keep coming to them for their changes. If I don't, they don't get my business. Nothing stops me from going elsewhere.

This is a whole lot of hoo-hah for an app nobody is forced to use and exists in a very small market niche. Who decides what bits get changed? As ever, it's you. You control what you read, what apps you use, and how your experience is dictated. Call me when that changes and we'll talk.