Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson
You're welcome to do so.  I especially wish e-book software creators (such as Kris of Marvin for iOS) would "commandeer" those ideas, that is: implement them in their e-reader software.
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I'd love to implement the "nicer" footnote display methods #2, #3, or #4 instead... but, unfortunately, it appears that as of November 2014, it's too early to have such "lofty" ambitions. |
Heh, yep, having an option of all four really would be great. But this stuff really should be taken care of at the "device/reader" level or the entire "standards" level, and not at the "book" level (with every book doing its own "hackish" javascript, etc. etc.).
Currently, the best method for EPUB/MOBIs is heuristics at the reader level. Go point Kris over here, and maybe he might implement it. Perhaps that might start an avalanche of footnote advancement!
I think the only hope is for the next ebook format AFTER EPUB, and hope that THAT format will have some better standards for coding/handling footnotes.
Side Note: I must admit, I haven't read TOO much into HTML5 asides, and EPUB3's implementation of footnotes. I just gathered some info over the many months. I must admit, I haven't dug into the nitty gritty, and seen how things like AZARDI/Readium/iBooks actually handles it.
I think LaTeX handles it pretty well:
Code:
This is some a normal sentence with a footnote.\footnote{This is a little footnote.}
This is another sentence.\footnote{This is a really really long footnote.
With multiple paragraphs.
And more paragraphs.
And even more paragraphs.
And one more for good measure.}
Then it is up to the LaTeX renderer/classes you use. You can easily then specify what sort of output you want (footnotes at the bottom of the page, end notes at the end of a chapter, an entire chapter dedicated to end notes, footnotes at the end of every section, ...).
The numbering of the footnote can be taken care of automatically. You can also go in and easily specify what numbering scheme you want to follow: letters, numbers, roman numerals, symbols, or your own custom numbering scheme (perhaps you want "##.", or "[##]" or "(##)"). You can also then specify whether you want the numbers to reset per chapter, reset per page, or go from 1 -> the end of the book.
I don't see why something more powerful like a tablet wouldn't be able to handle this sort of thing, but I could definitely see how a system THAT complex could bog down a much weaker machine (or one with very little RAM).
Side Note: Also, you would need to come up with some standard way to cross-reference a given footnote. For example, in the book, the text might say "see Footnote 30 on page 15". If everything is auto-numbered, that might get a little hairy. Most non-fiction books have a very large amount of cross-references. And not just with footnotes, but figures, formulas, images, ...
Other Side Note: This also brings up, multiple sets of footnotes, which is quite a complex problem. What if you have one set of "numbered" footnotes, one set of "alphabet" footnotes, one set of "roman numeral" footnotes. I always point to this thread as a "horror show" for footnotes (see Post #19):
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=225045
It had a 3 distinct sets of footnotes (Original Footnotes, Translator's Footnotes, American Editor's Footnotes), footnotes in footnotes, and MASSIVE footnotes (one book had a footnote 7 pages long).
AAAAnd One More Side Note: A lot of this auto-number generation also has to balance looks/usability with speed. In order to generate all the numbers on-the-fly (or when the book is initially opened), you would need to load the entire chapter/book into memory, and calculate everything. This might make the book take much longer to open/turn/layout. Users/Readers might not like that at all, they want to read NOW NOW NOW.
Similar to MathML heavy books. I don't have any MathML EPUBs on hand, BUT, here is an HTML+MathJAX version of "The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume I":
http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.e...1.html#Ch11-S4
While my PC was able to open the site fine, when I opened it on my phone, things went chugging badly while it was generating/calculating/laying everything out. Then even simple scrolling made my phone jerk around... and it was not a happy experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson
[...] However, I'll be putting the endnotes section at the end of every chapter (every internal EPUB file), instead of a gigantic, all-encompassing endnotes section at the end of the book. And, I'm going to use regular-sized numbers in square brackets, instead of supercript numbers, for footnote marks. (And I thank you for making that suggestion on page 2 of this thread.)
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Definitely the right decision. Still have to keep in mind all those old/slow devices (and old/slow readers with poor eyesight) out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson
However, it would be dishonest from me to deliver a product to my client that I'd be well aware was not "future-proof", and that might prove worthless only a few years later, which would have ultimately wasted the client's money.
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Same reasoning to strongly recommend AGAINST much of the "Fixed Format" books. That is even worse than just a simple EPUB2/EPUB3 divide, that is a specific STORE + DEVICE divide!
Heh, and another thing I like to keep in mind, many of the books I create get posted onto a site (let us say you pull a chapter, and post it as a Daily Article). The more "EPUB specific", "javascript heavy", and "hackish" you go with your code, the less portable the code becomes OUTSIDE/BEYOND the EPUB format.
With more and more publishers also putting up "HTML versions" of their books on a site... it is very easy to copy/paste basic HTML over, with the "old fashioned" footnotes, but fancy HTML5 + javascript? No (or very small) chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson
I will, therefore, very likely be delivering footnotes done in "old-fashioned, unsophisticated" method #1 to my client for the book I'm currently working on, and I trust they're going to accept that as the "best" (or "safest", if you will) – even if not optimal – solution as of November 2014.  |
Yep yep. You can always bash them over the head with logic, and link them to this topic.... and then scare them away forever. Or just send them my way, and I will type up a twenty page report which will make their eyes glaze over.
