[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Katy Did

Does DRM on an epub prevent you transferring that book to another reader which supports epub? I was under the impression that generally it's possible to read, say, a Kobo book on a Nook (at any rate, the two Kobo books I just transferred to my Nook were readable). If so then for practical purposes, the DRM on an epub makes no difference to the average reader.

Yes, it kind of does. Using ADE to sideload books is just as much work as stripping DRM and converting. And the converting part is just as easy/mainstream as downloading the acsm and opening in ADE, then authorizing your device with ADE ID, sideloading.

Don't confuse what you do as a more competent and experienced reader of ebooks with what the average person does. Most people care whether the book is readable, not whether it has DRM on it. Most people buy from the main sites, they don't go looking specifically for sites which sell non-DRM books*. Most of the main sites - aside from Amazon - sell epub, not mobi. (BTW, I just found out that Waterstones in the UK - who promote and sell Waterstones-branded Kindles in their store - don't even sell Kindle books! They sell epub. Insane).

It's misleading to paint Amazon as generously allowing readers to use the space on a PW for whatever they want because for the average reader, that is simply not the case. The average Kindle user is restricted to Amazon. The average Nook or Kobo user has a much wider choice.

*On that topic, genuine question here: are there DRM-free sites that are practical alternatives to the main sites in terms of the number and range of available books? I ask because I just searched the Diesel e-book store and they didn't have any of the books I wanted (I checked about 10), but I don't know much about these sites so I wondered if there are alternatives - I'd much prefer to buy DRM-free books off the bat if possible rather than removing it later.

Well, yes, the "main sites" in other words Kobo, Amazon and B&N. Take a look at http://Baen.com, who sell a book and give you both epub and mobi. As they are not one of the three main sites, they have a strong incentive to sell DRM-free (and they are well-known as pioneers in that) because otherwise no one would buy there. They'd just buy on their Kindle/Nook/Kobo. Don't kid yourself -- most people will never read their books anywhere other than the device they bought it on. Anyone who messes around with ADE certainly is capable of messing around with calibre, and can probably handle Apprentice Alf as well, because to go anywhere further than "buy Nook/Kindle/Kobo, click shopping cart icon, search book, click buy button, read" means they are already that kind of person anyway!

You have just as much capability to sideload Kindle books as Kobo/Nook books, since to do either one you have to be more than usually capable to begin with!

And any book that you can get DRM-free on Amazon, Kobo, or B&N you can probably also get in a DRM-free store too, most likely the books you wanted were simply not available DRM-free. Anything published by Baen is available on their website OR Amazon, saying "At the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM (Digital Rights Management)." and I'm sure the same goes for B&N/Kobo.

Tor books have the same message, and can be bought direct -- same deal, DRM-free epub+mobi formats, at their UK store, http://www.panmacmillan.com. (The US store was announced a couple of years ago but still shows a placeholder at http://www.tor.com/store/.)

Who cares which came first? I imagine Amazon could add support for epub easily enough if they chose to. They don't, presumably because they'd prefer people to buy from Amazon, and unlike the other companies they're dominant enough that people will simply accept that restriction.

What would adding epub support do??? You can already read epub books on a Kindle, using calibre, kindlegen, or send-to-kindle! Adding support for ADE encryption would add something, but why on earth would they do that? It would cost more to license it than they would make on new customers. There is absolutely no intellectual justification for supporting TWO encryption schemes!

As to mobi/azw3 not being 'Kindle books', I see that as nitpicking. Those formats are so tightly associated with Amazon (in a way that epub isn't closely associated with any single reader) that for all practical purposes - again, for the average reader - they really are 'Kindle books'.

And epub is a myth. B&N don't use them, nor do Kobo. B&N use a special format called epub+DRM, and Kobo is even worse, they use KEPUB which isn't even an epub at all. anyone who can get around these limitations can also figure out how to convert, or just use send-to-kindle. And any other source of books offers both formats to begin with.

I don't 'hate on MOBI', I just disagree with the implication Amazon are more generous than B&N or other companies in their allocation of internal space. The fact is all these companies would rather you buy your books from them, and make it somewhat tricky to buy books from elsewhere. By sticking to their own format, Amazon are slightly worse than the others, but largely because they're successful enough that they can afford to do that. Maybe the other companies would do exactly the same thing if they didn't think it would lose them business.

So you're saying that Amazon AREN'T more generous than B&N in their allocation of personal space?

How is it tricky to buy from anywhere else? Buy a book from Baen or PanMacmillan, and you get books easily put on either device, it is simplicity itself! Same goes with downloading from http://www.gutenberg.org. The only people who don't give you mobi-formatted books are the people who try to limit you to their device. They don't make it tricky to buy books elsewhere, it is EXACTLY the other way around. They make it tricky to buy books there and USE it elsewhere!