[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Copyright does benefit publishers in the sense that it gives them an incentive to publish at all. While I think most of us can agree that in most cases the most significant work is done by the author, a publisher adds (or at least use to be) a lot of value through editing, printing, distributing, promoting, etc. The publisher would have no incentive to either publish, or pay the author if such a limited monopoly didn't exist. The public domain books that are still published today are ones with a proven audience. A certain number of people will buy Sherlock Holmes stories regardless of how old they are.

Books were being published before copyright existed.

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I think this argument is rather weak. Lets remember the vast majority of books are only commercially viable for a few years. Ebooks change the equation somewhat, but most books will be difficult if not impossible to find on book store shelves 5 years after they have been published and after they have gone out of print, they may never be printed again because they simply do not sell enough to justify the expense. Longer copyrights do benefit publishers and some authors, but only for a very small fraction of the works that are ever produced in the first place.

Your observation doesn't go against my argument, but in support of it. The reason why books are only commercially viable for a short period of time is because of the large competition. A publisher can't maintain in bookstores all the titles that they published in the last 5 years, and they have monopoly over books published over decades.

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

The lions share of profits though are still made with new works.

And this has nothing to do with my point. It's not about how much profit is being made, it's about how much of it goes to the author.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Are you saying that there was less competition because copyright was shorter or that works were valued higher because there was less competition?

Both. Shorter copyright = fewer titles under copyright = less competition => higher value for the publishers compared to today.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I don't see that anything will decrease competition significantly at this point short of a catastrophic event.

The length of the copyright could be determined based on what is best for authors.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

And while I have nothing against derivative works per se, I see plenty of non derivative works being published, as well as derivative ones.

I understand that making it possible for anyone to create a work based on current bestsellers would make many people happy, especially those with very limited tastes, but I fail to see a large benefit to society of allowing anyone to freely use the creations of others. Sure we would have more Nero Wolfe novels, Harry Dresden, Sookie Stackhose etc. and many would be good I am sure, but would it make the world an infinitely better place or tend to devalue the original creations?

Perhaps it would keep those who only read Harry Potter books (and I know two adults who do) happy and that is enough?

I'm lost as to your point here. Anyone can freely use the creations of others if they are in the public domain, and even use the creations that are under copyright as long as they use them for derivative works.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That is just my point. It is unfair that to consider copyright to be "special protection". If you make a chair to sell you also need society's protection (or else someone could steal it or cheat you), there should not be a difference. Just because the product is different, you don't deserve less. The social contract is a smokescreen, since there is no such social contract for others.

The "special protection" is that the author gets to keep the copyright after selling the work. Without copyright law the situation would be like selling a chair: you make the chair/write a story, trade it for money, and if you want to make more money you make another chair/write another story.