[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I guess I have nothing against religion in books, but if they are tagged or labeled as Christian or religious I am very unlikely to buy them or even read them for free.

That's most of my reaction. It's not "I would never read anything described as 'Christian literature,' but "the label 'Christian' is a strong red flag to me when considering what to read, and especially when considering what to buy."

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

What you don't think Spock dying for the crew of the Enterprise and returning to life is not a Christian theme?

Most of the deaths I read about in Star Trek are little deaths. I can accept an argument that there's a whole dying-and-rebirth theme involved in those, but it's a lot more cyclical than most Christian theologians would approve of.

(And no. The dying sacrificed hero/god coming back to life is not a specifically Christian theme; it dates back to Osiris at least.)

And how about how as each Doctor dies he is reborn in a new body but is essentially the same?

I hadn't thought of a series of resurrections as a Christian theme; I thought they stuck with just one restart. Reincarnation in a series of new bodies with the same soul is definitely not a Christian theme. (This discussion should potentially move to politics & religion, but I think it's okay for now as it's related to identifying the contents of books.)

Note, I didn't say Christian preaching, I said Christian themes. That is why I asked about about the genre, which does seem to be often about preaching, versus the themes, which frankly pepper much of Western Fiction, even if the author intends to or not.

And I was talking about how the books are labeled, not what themes they might contain. Red flags in the blurbs or covers. If they feel the need to tell me there are "Christian themes" in the book, or the phrasing makes it obvious to me that's the message being conveyed, I don't need to read that book.

Never bothered with fanfic... but I bet there are more themes there as well, particularly if it is based on a work that has Christian themes in it.

Sometimes. Sometimes, however, the fanfic is written specifically to subvert the themes in the original.

I think you are confusing preaching from themes. To go to the Lord of the Rings as an example. There are plenty of Christian themes peppered in the book, but little overt preaching.

And the blurbs don't describe the series as an "epic Christian allegory."

Again, I think that depends on what one defines as Christian Fiction. If it is the stuff that is found on the Christian Book shelf of the book store, I think it has less to do with a poor foundation and more to do with just plain poor writing.

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes it's fine writing; it's just genre-specific, and the genre of "Christian fiction" does not appeal to me. I hold no opinion about the literary quality of the genre as a whole, just as I'd hope those who dislike romance or science fiction or mystery books to be able to realize they don't want to read them but that doesn't mean they're all packed with bad writing.

If on the other hand, you are making this claim about works by some of the greatest writers of the last couple of centuries... then it just strikes me as being sad.

Mostly, I'm talking about blurbs on bookcovers and in ebook stores. Some "great literature" may leave me cold because the Christian themes are so overt that I can't get past them to enjoy the story at all; more often, though, the setting is archaic enough that I have no sense of immersion in the story.

I am still not sure what you mean when you say Christian Fiction. Are we talking the genre or simply work with Christian themes.

The genre, mostly. Things *tagged* "Christian Fiction" or similar somewhere in their public retail description.

Good fiction will often have Christian themes in it (intentionally or not) because Christianity has shaped the way Western culture views the world. Concepts such as good or evil, flawed characters attempting to overcome their flaws, the problem of evil are all ones that are deeply Christian and yet hard to tell a good story without (well without some of them anyway).

Those are hardly Christian themes; they're human ones. Are you under the impression that Muslim or Buddhist stories won't have good vs evil or flawed characters attempting to get better? Many entirely secular stories have those themes, including secular stories written by non-Christian authors set in non-Christian locales.