Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan
It seems it's become downright impossible to discuss any subject in America, if part of the premise of that subject is that people should do something that they are not doing, or stop doing something that they have been doing.
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And if you disagree with this assessment, how do you explain the fact that Americans are expressly warned not to discuss religion and politics in sensitive forums? How is it that intelligent, passionate people on this site have not been able to work out solutions to things that concern them, like copyright issues, without coming to verbal blows?
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I'm a systems administrator, and in forums devoted to Unix and lookalikes like Linux, you get Holy Wars like whether vi or emacs is the One True Editor, with the same sort of "coming to verbal blows" you mention. They are called religious arguments, and they are in a very real sense.
A variety of different opinions are religious in nature. They aren't about religion per se, but they tend to live in the same place. Religious belief is held on a gut level, not a rational one, and a variety of other beliefs can be as well.
The late psychiatrist Eric Berne talked about the Position. The Position is a sort of unconscious, existential statement of "This is who I am, and this is how I fit into the world." Positions are learned by osmosis, and tend to be set in broad outline in early childhood. The become part of a person's "sense of self".
The key point is that once we have adopted a Position, our primary goal is to
defend it. We happily clutch to our chest evidence that supports it, and ignore or discard evidence to the contrary. Questions of our Position can provoke extreme and even violent reactions, because they will be seen not only as attacks on our beliefs but on
our selves.
Religious expression and political viewpoints tend to stem from Positions. We adopt those that complement what we believe and how we feel, and cherry pick as needed to get things to come out as we desire. Do you think the religious types who rail against homosexuality do so because their religion says it's wrong? I don't. I think they are starting from a point of hatred, fear, and loathing, and quoting scripture to justify what they already feel. If it requires rather selective quoting, and taking stuff out of context, no matter.
Politics work similarly. You hold political opinions based on who you think you are and what your position in society is. You buy into rhetoric that supports your belief, and reject that which doesn't.
In that sort of discussion, I tend to be less interested in exactly
what folks believe, and far more in why they hold the belief. What is attractive about it? Why do they
want to believe that?
I try not to invest too much emotional capital in discussions like this. I have opinions as well, but I try to have rationality serve as a balance to belief.
Meanwhile, no surprise that some statements can stir up a hornet's nest, since they can be interpreted emotionally as "You're telling me I'm a Bad Person because I don't do things the way you think I should! Who are you to say that?"
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Dennis