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Originally Posted by Hellmark
I don't think anyone is asking for a free for all, just not be so draconian.
There are plenty of ways to make money in other ways. I mean, look at the number of websites out there that are making tons of cash, while their users don't pay anything. Are you paying to use Facebook? Reddit? Google? You can still make money without charging customers. And even if you do charge customers, lacking DRM doesn't make it so you'll not have any sales. Look at O'Reilly, they're a well known publisher, and do not use DRM on any of their books. They've actually tracked a rise in sales after they dropped DRM. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what you're proposing would happen if there were no DRM?
Only lending one at a time per license purchase of a book isn't a big deal. No one is arguing against that. The problem is with the limited number of times it could be loaned out. 27 is a low number. That is one years worth, if it is checked out for 2 weeks. My library defaults to 1 week loans on ebooks, so 6 months. How many paper books are unusable after 6 months or a year? Hell, I've seen books at the local library that are decades old, that had been checked out dozens of times.
Are you going off the assumption that they would of had two or more additional sales if a library copy had not been available? That might be so, but if that is your argument, then you will also need to find out how many people read the library copy and then purchased it because they enjoyed it? This is somewhat related to some studies I've seen on piracy (if you think of it from the standpoint that should a free copy not been available would you still have got the book), that showed that the vast majority of the people who pirated something would not have bought it if they had no other alternative, and on average a larger portion of those people who pirated ended up buying it than those who would have only bought it if they had no other option. Also those in the studies who did buy copies of things they had pirated ended up buying related works.
Friend of mine pirated the first Dresden Files book after I had recommended it to him. I only had an ebook copy, so I didn't have a paper book I could loan him. The library didn't have a copy, so he couldn't borrow it from the library. He didn't want to buy it, because he wasn't sure if he'd like it, so that is why he pirated it. He started reading it, and immediately he enjoyed it, so much so that he went out and bought all of the books in the series (which it was on the 12th book at the time). I've heard tons of stories who've done the same thing after reading a book from the library. People are often hesitant on spending money about something they're unfamiliar with. Libraries allow people a legal means to try something first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmark
I don't think anyone is asking for a free for all, just not be so draconian.
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Some people are asking for a free for all but and others ask that the publishers do as they (the askers) think they should do. My contention is that ebooks are not pbooks and that currently the authors/publishers have spent time and money getting them to market, so that they should have the same rights to decide on how they will distribute them as owners and producers of other goods have.
I am a big fan of the library system and have nothing against anyone getting something for free. But... I do not think authors and publishers are evil in wanting to make as much profit as they can. Since many books are available from the library in paper format, Who is being oppressed that weren't being oppressed ten years ago, because they can't get the exact ebook from the library that they want when they want it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmark
There are plenty of ways to make money in other ways. I mean, look at the number of websites out there that are making tons of cash, while their users don't pay anything. Are you paying to use Facebook? Reddit? Google? You can still make money without charging customers. And even if you do charge customers, lacking DRM doesn't make it so you'll not have any sales. Look at O'Reilly, they're a well known publisher, and do not use DRM on any of their books. They've actually tracked a rise in sales after they dropped DRM. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what you're proposing would happen if there were no DRM?
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I don't think I mentioned DRM in the part you quoted? And I did not imply that lack DRM made it so you do not have any sales. I am neither for or against DRM but I think it is the author/publisher who has the right to decide whether they will use it or not.
I do think that add supported sales would be as unpopular as DRM, judging by other threads, but again in a free world that should be the sellers choice.
As for O'Reilly, I fail to see how that fits into the current topic unless they have far more liberal library lending policies? Are all of their most current editions in most libraries with much less draconian lending policies? I have no idea but I think not.
I do not think 27 loans per book is an unreasonably low number or that 127 loans per book is an unreasonably high number. Frankly I think it is not my decision to make. Many people mention library books that have been leant out more than 100 times. No one mentions that many are replaced after being leant out much fewer than 27 times. Lotta fussy librarians out their who will replace a book if ketchup is spilled on the cover even if it can be wiped off. Books are damaged, stolen, lost, left in the rain or simply unreturned. Many of these are expensive hardcover editions (and libraries usually pay full retail price). Plus many libraries lease paper books for short periods at some pretty hefty rates to satisfy demand for the latest bestseller.
As to your friend who pirated the book because he couldn't get it for free from the library or convince you to give it to him to see if he liked it. He could have read an excerpt, gone to a bookstore and browsed the book or perhaps even legally read enough of it on your reader to see if he liked it. Does he do that in other areas, steal a car and then buy it if he likes it, steal a pizza and then buy one if he likes it? Would he pay for the first one or just hope the seller was happy to sell the second and only lose half as much? And does either option justify the initial act of just taking the item?
I am sure an occasional pirate buys an occasional book, just as a car thief buys an occasional car. It happens but not on a scale that the urban myth implies. If you have indeed heard tons of stories, and know for a fact that they are for the most part true, you should send them to the publishers with proof of purchases.
My point was that no-one is being unreasonably deprived by not getting a specific ebook from the library. If they cannot get the pbook from the library, then they are no more deprived than those without ereaders. The people who might actually suffer physically or emotionally harmed from not getting the latest bestseller for free in ebook form when they want it are doubtless legion, but residing in another universe far far away.
Helen