[tirsales]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

You would seem to have an unreasonable fear of security (and of change) yourself. You're speaking of something as if it is a threat to human rights... when it's really only a threat to your buying a book, and someone else making a buck. That's a bit of an over-reaction, I think, and (only) one of the reasons this issue has gotten nowhere for so long.

Security? No one fears security. I fear the demands and propositions made by publishers and politicians (not only in the context of copyright-protection, but also in the context of combating terrorism, enhancing security, etc)
E.g. the right to tap internet lines to search for downloaded content.

You're suggesting that security must be extreme to the point of ridiculousness

No, I am just repeating demands actually made by others.
You want to be assured that there is no darknet - and there is only one way of assuring this: Total control over absolutely everything. Over each computer, each network line, over each household, etc - and that would be the end of freedom and human rights.
Otherwise - there will always be a darknet, just as there will always be criminals, black market, etc

... and it does not. Security is as simple as having your cash register before the exit. It's as simple as a security camera watching for shoplifters unobtrusively from the ceiling. It's as simple as requiring a signature for a credit card process. All of these methods are standard practices, satisfactory for the majority of shopkeepers' security issues, and it doesn't lead to customers screaming "Anarchy!" and rushing into the nearest orchard to steal apples from a hapless farmer.

Have I critizied shop-keepers for e.g. registering IPs that shop there, asking for user credentials before you can buy, verifying your credit-worthiness before they ship or let you download an e-book?
No.
OTOH: Security cameras and stuff dont keep things from getting stolen. Following your logic (as long as there is even the slightest darknet - no e-market) no shop could possibly sell stuff.
The darknet exists and it will exist for as long as there is an internet. Saying that there will be no e-market as long as the darknet exists is as logical as stating that there will be no normal market as long as there is theft.

(And the internet IS anarchy. People do what they want, say what they want, lurk about anonymously, hack into and attack other people's computers without fear of punishment, tap into forbidden networks, post other people's property illegally, and take things for free that they are not entitled to. Like it or not, that is anarchy. The internet was designed by idealistic scientists and technicians who couldn't imagine anyone would want to intentionally do something bad on their network. Guess what? Their opinion of human nature was a bit off-base.)

The internet was originally designed by the military. Just a matter of fact statement.
"Without fear of punishment"? I think you should start researching a bit. Most crackers, important viral designers, etc get caught.
You could also say that the real world is anarchy - I can say what I want, I can do what I want, etc.
If I know how to do it I can break into other peoples houses and steal what I want - without fear of getting caught. Its not harder then breaking into computers and networks without getting caught. Actually - it is difficult. But it is also very difficult to break into computers without getting caught.
And btw: saying what you want is one of the fundamental human rights.

I'm a liberal, too. But I'm also a realist. And as a realist, I can accept that some things have to come with caveats, in order for them to work. Houses come with doorlocks. Cars come with registrations. Driving requires a license. Credit cards require monthly payments. How well would these things work without their caveats? Not well, and everyone knows it. So we accept the caveats, and we can get along with our lives and some sense of security... not 100% perfect, but there nonetheless.

There is a small line between security and despotism. DRM - and most control statements proposed and demanded by the industrie and some politicians - cross that line into despotism.
I dont care if you e.g. mark your books with a customer-tailored signature (e.g. containing the name or id of the customer) and sue customers whose books appear on the darknet.
Even better: Just register an ID and let people reregister that ID to a new customer so customers could resell their books. It would still give you that security you need - but wouldnt allow publishers to violate my rights.
I dont care a dim about security measures - as long as they restrain from crossing that aforesaid line.

This is why I say some security would be a help. And I refuse to accept the notion that any and all forms of security are EVIL, ABHORRENT, and ultimately futile.

We already have some security. We have e.g. a police that pursuits criminals.
Demanding that there should be no darknet is like demanding that there should be no criminality - far from reality.