MobileRead Forums - View Single Post - Non-heroic fantasy?

b0rsuk · 03-15-2012, 01:50 AM

Let me start by saying I understand this thread as a call for books where the protagonist(s) is not a paragon of virtues. I think the thread should be renamed. Alternate name could be "Fantasy books whose protagonists aren't so good they make you sick", or "Antihero fantasy"

1. The Broken Sword - Poul Anderson, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 19 reviews

A hidden gem.

A novel similar to a Norse saga. It's unoriginal as far as the creatures go (everything drawn from the mythology; it's mostly about the war of Elves and Trolls and some human... trespassers), but has incredible story and storytelling. There's a lot of violence and dark atmosphere that doesn't feel forced. It's not so much evil as amoral, there are no clear good guys in this book. It feels like Anderson accomplishes all this without effort, it's all a result of the sum of the parts.

Michael Moorcook (the guy that invented Chaos in books) values this book more than Tolkien. I'm not sure I agree (the book is MUCH shorter and let's not bring Silmarillion), but I can deffinitely see why he thinks so ! It's all the more baffling when you consider Anderson had a degree in... Physics ! But I seem to notice a pattern in SF/fantasy written by physicists. They can accomplish a lot (even create suggestive atmosphere) in few words.

2. Darkness Weaves (and Kane serries in general) - Karl Wagner, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 12 reviews
A lot of action, short but very evocative sentences, atmosphere so thick you can cut it with a knife. The book(s) is rarely mentioned. Yet everyone who read it seems to like it. As far as I can tell the only fault of the author is that he has only written several short books. I really wish there was more.

3. Conan the Barbarian books - especially Robert Howard
Careful, this is a mixed bag because there were many authors. Generally the earliest ones, written by Rob Howard, are the best. After all, they inspired the other authors to write about the character.

You may've heard Conan the Barbarian is stupid, primitive, or dumb. None of these. He is simple but not stupid in the way Carrot from Discworld can envy. He's much more sophisticated than vast majority of video game protagonists:
- despite being powerful, he doesn't miss an opportunity to use stealth; he started as a thief
- he doesn't touch stuff he doesn't understand. He says it explicitely at one point.
- it's not uncommon for him to run away !
- he's not a walking tank. From time to time he is injured, but he uses every way possible to avoid getting hit.

Why is Conan on the list ? Conan is quite amoral. Today, the author would be crucified for unashamedly treating women as objects. Conan has (at least) one woman in every city. He kidnaps a woman if he feels like it, and may have even sold one at one point. He can do a lot for the right price. Conan can keep his word, but there are also temporary aliances and backstabbing. Wizards are, by "our" standards, all evil and feared. They all use dark magics, necromancy, cruel spells. It's just that some of them are helpful while others are power hungry.
Conan is not evil per se, he has gray morality. I find it much more satisfying than outright "evil". Conan's goals are wealth, power, and women.

Even if you find Conan as a character dull (not much time is spent describing his feelings), you should enjoy the world, which is great, quite cruel, and full of dark secrets. Even though a lot of cliches have a source in Conan or the world around it, the writing is so good it doesn't bother. Howard doesn't spend 50 pages describing a temple of an evil deity until you fall asleep.

4. Stars my Destination (sci-fi) - Alfred Bester, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 264 reviews
A sci-fi book is on the list because I consider its protagonist one of best, if not THE best example of an anti-hero.

I don't want to spoil anything. Perhaps I like the book so much because the protagonist has a lot in common with me - he can find a lot of motivation in anger. I can understand him.

You'd think a book about revenge would be boring. A generic "killed my father" or other blah blah. There's an event early in the book that makes Gulliver Foyle really mad, and you should understand why. From that point Foyle doesn't stop short of anything to reach his goal. It will probably make you uncomfortable, because he can be cruel to the point of being chilling, and very much likeable at the same time.

03-15-2012, 01:50 AM	#86
b0rsuk meles meles Posts: 109 Karma: 163588 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Persepolis Device: Pocketbook InkPad 3	Let me start by saying I understand this thread as a call for books where the protagonist(s) is not a paragon of virtues. I think the thread should be renamed. Alternate name could be "Fantasy books whose protagonists aren't so good they make you sick", or "Antihero fantasy" 1. The Broken Sword - Poul Anderson, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 19 reviews A hidden gem. A novel similar to a Norse saga. It's unoriginal as far as the creatures go (everything drawn from the mythology; it's mostly about the war of Elves and Trolls and some human... trespassers), but has incredible story and storytelling. There's a lot of violence and dark atmosphere that doesn't feel forced. It's not so much evil as amoral, there are no clear good guys in this book. It feels like Anderson accomplishes all this without effort, it's all a result of the sum of the parts. Michael Moorcook (the guy that invented Chaos in books) values this book more than Tolkien. I'm not sure I agree (the book is MUCH shorter and let's not bring Silmarillion), but I can deffinitely see why he thinks so ! It's all the more baffling when you consider Anderson had a degree in... Physics ! But I seem to notice a pattern in SF/fantasy written by physicists. They can accomplish a lot (even create suggestive atmosphere) in few words. 2. Darkness Weaves (and Kane serries in general) - Karl Wagner, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 12 reviews A lot of action, short but very evocative sentences, atmosphere so thick you can cut it with a knife. The book(s) is rarely mentioned. Yet everyone who read it seems to like it. As far as I can tell the only fault of the author is that he has only written several short books. I really wish there was more. 3. Conan the Barbarian books - especially Robert Howard Careful, this is a mixed bag because there were many authors. Generally the earliest ones, written by Rob Howard, are the best. After all, they inspired the other authors to write about the character. You may've heard Conan the Barbarian is stupid, primitive, or dumb. None of these. He is simple but not stupid in the way Carrot from Discworld can envy. He's much more sophisticated than vast majority of video game protagonists: - despite being powerful, he doesn't miss an opportunity to use stealth; he started as a thief - he doesn't touch stuff he doesn't understand. He says it explicitely at one point. - it's not uncommon for him to run away ! - he's not a walking tank. From time to time he is injured, but he uses every way possible to avoid getting hit. Why is Conan on the list ? Conan is quite amoral. Today, the author would be crucified for unashamedly treating women as objects. Conan has (at least) one woman in every city. He kidnaps a woman if he feels like it, and may have even sold one at one point. He can do a lot for the right price. Conan can keep his word, but there are also temporary aliances and backstabbing. Wizards are, by "our" standards, all evil and feared. They all use dark magics, necromancy, cruel spells. It's just that some of them are helpful while others are power hungry. Conan is not evil per se, he has gray morality. I find it much more satisfying than outright "evil". Conan's goals are wealth, power, and women. Even if you find Conan as a character dull (not much time is spent describing his feelings), you should enjoy the world, which is great, quite cruel, and full of dark secrets. Even though a lot of cliches have a source in Conan or the world around it, the writing is so good it doesn't bother. Howard doesn't spend 50 pages describing a temple of an evil deity until you fall asleep. 4. Stars my Destination (sci-fi) - Alfred Bester, **** 1/2* on the popular website, 264 reviews A sci-fi book is on the list because I consider its protagonist one of best, if not THE best example of an anti-hero. I don't want to spoil anything. Perhaps I like the book so much because the protagonist has a lot in common with me - he can find a lot of motivation in anger. I can understand him. You'd think a book about revenge would be boring. A generic "killed my father" or other blah blah. There's an event early in the book that makes Gulliver Foyle really mad, and you should understand why. From that point Foyle doesn't stop short of anything to reach his goal. It will probably make you uncomfortable, because he can be cruel to the point of being chilling, and very much likeable at the same time. Last edited by b0rsuk; 03-15-2012 at 05:04 AM.