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ProfCrash · 02-14-2012, 03:32 PM

Apple can try its hardest to influence Foxconn and will probably fail miserably. Chinese law does not provide the same protection or enforcement of existing laws as companies in the US and Europe. It is cheaper to hire individuals, run factories, and easier to fire or remove employees in China then it is in the US and Europe. Due to the size of the population and the push to move from rural China to urban China in order to make more money and improve their quality of life, get the child a better education, and increase oppertunities there are millions of people willing to work for crap wages, work insane hours, all in deplorable conditions.

This is no different then what we saw in the West during the 1800's and early 1900's as people began leaving the farm and moving to the cities. Not to mention the waves of immigrants willing to work in factories that were abusive in the US and in Europe.

Companies are driven to make as much profit as they can. They give lip service to caring about human rights and protecting workers and labor laws because it is good PR. The reality is that they want to make a product at the least cost to them so they can increase their profit. Apple is no different the Amazon or Microsoft or any other large electronics corporation. As I understand it, Foxconn produces parts that are part of the Kindle and the Nook as well as the IPad and IPhone. Why are we targeting Apple when there is a nice long list of companies that are allowing the same thing to happen?

This is no different then what we see in the garmat industry. Changes only came when some consumers began buying USA and European made garmets because of the awful labor practices in Africa, South America, and Asia. I would bet that you would find that the labor practices are still pretty horrific and would in no way be condoned in the US.

And yet Nike and Under Armour and the like do really well in the US even knowing that crap labor laws. You can buy New Balance shoes that are made in the US (for the most part) for less then Nikes but people buy Nikes. They like the status that comes with the brand, the design, and the shoe so they will pay more for the Nike then the more humanly made New Balance.

You can buy foods that are Fair Trade or Organic that do not use slave labor, or are less likely to use slave labor, yet most of us buy non-Fair Trade and Non-Organic because it is cheaper.

To hold Apple to a higher standard then others in the electronics industry is silly. To hold Apple to a higher standard when there are less expensive items that we could all be buying that do not employ slave labor and that we ignore is silly.

If we want Apple to care, or Amazon or Samsung or electronics company X, we have to make them care. That means not buying those products and making Apple, and all the other companies feel the pain. Until consumers are willing to change their buying patterns, Corporations are going to continue to give the PR acceptable "That is bad" response to awful labor practices while merrily going about their business and making as much money as they can.

It took years of boycotting Nestle because of their immoral formula practice in Africa before Nestle changed its position. Nestle was giving away enough formula for free to mothers so that their breast milk dried up and then charged an insane amount of money, for the local economy, for the formula all over the African continent. There were large cases of malnutrition and some starvation of babies because of this practice. I know that we had no Nestle products in my house until I was a teenager because my Mom participated in the boycott.

If you want Apple to really change their practices then convince people to loudly boycott Apple because of labor practices in places like China. Convince the consumer that they should be willing to pay more for an IPad made in humane conditions in the US or Europe and make Apple aware that this is the case. Be prepared to be Apple free for a long time.

And then check in with Nike and see how well all that outcry and pressure worked. Let me know that you are surprised that not much has changed in those factories even though people are less up in arms about the labor practices in those factories.

It is basic economics. Supply and demand. Apple, Nike, Nestle don't care about morals and ethics. They care about profit. Hurt their profit and things might change. Until then, it is all smoke and mirrors and nothing will change.

02-14-2012, 03:32 PM	#20
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Apple can try its hardest to influence Foxconn and will probably fail miserably. Chinese law does not provide the same protection or enforcement of existing laws as companies in the US and Europe. It is cheaper to hire individuals, run factories, and easier to fire or remove employees in China then it is in the US and Europe. Due to the size of the population and the push to move from rural China to urban China in order to make more money and improve their quality of life, get the child a better education, and increase oppertunities there are millions of people willing to work for crap wages, work insane hours, all in deplorable conditions. This is no different then what we saw in the West during the 1800's and early 1900's as people began leaving the farm and moving to the cities. Not to mention the waves of immigrants willing to work in factories that were abusive in the US and in Europe. Companies are driven to make as much profit as they can. They give lip service to caring about human rights and protecting workers and labor laws because it is good PR. The reality is that they want to make a product at the least cost to them so they can increase their profit. Apple is no different the Amazon or Microsoft or any other large electronics corporation. As I understand it, Foxconn produces parts that are part of the Kindle and the Nook as well as the IPad and IPhone. Why are we targeting Apple when there is a nice long list of companies that are allowing the same thing to happen? This is no different then what we see in the garmat industry. Changes only came when some consumers began buying USA and European made garmets because of the awful labor practices in Africa, South America, and Asia. I would bet that you would find that the labor practices are still pretty horrific and would in no way be condoned in the US. And yet Nike and Under Armour and the like do really well in the US even knowing that crap labor laws. You can buy New Balance shoes that are made in the US (for the most part) for less then Nikes but people buy Nikes. They like the status that comes with the brand, the design, and the shoe so they will pay more for the Nike then the more humanly made New Balance. You can buy foods that are Fair Trade or Organic that do not use slave labor, or are less likely to use slave labor, yet most of us buy non-Fair Trade and Non-Organic because it is cheaper. To hold Apple to a higher standard then others in the electronics industry is silly. To hold Apple to a higher standard when there are less expensive items that we could all be buying that do not employ slave labor and that we ignore is silly. If we want Apple to care, or Amazon or Samsung or electronics company X, we have to make them care. That means not buying those products and making Apple, and all the other companies feel the pain. Until consumers are willing to change their buying patterns, Corporations are going to continue to give the PR acceptable "That is bad" response to awful labor practices while merrily going about their business and making as much money as they can. It took years of boycotting Nestle because of their immoral formula practice in Africa before Nestle changed its position. Nestle was giving away enough formula for free to mothers so that their breast milk dried up and then charged an insane amount of money, for the local economy, for the formula all over the African continent. There were large cases of malnutrition and some starvation of babies because of this practice. I know that we had no Nestle products in my house until I was a teenager because my Mom participated in the boycott. If you want Apple to really change their practices then convince people to loudly boycott Apple because of labor practices in places like China. Convince the consumer that they should be willing to pay more for an IPad made in humane conditions in the US or Europe and make Apple aware that this is the case. Be prepared to be Apple free for a long time. And then check in with Nike and see how well all that outcry and pressure worked. Let me know that you are surprised that not much has changed in those factories even though people are less up in arms about the labor practices in those factories. It is basic economics. Supply and demand. Apple, Nike, Nestle don't care about morals and ethics. They care about profit. Hurt their profit and things might change. Until then, it is all smoke and mirrors and nothing will change.