[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Distributors exist in other businesses and the producers can still control who sells what and when.

The distributor can sell the products they've purchased to any retailer at their own discretion. Urban Outfitters doesn't order books directly from the publishers; and if the publishers didn't want UO to sell books, there's nothing they can do about it. I seriously doubt Macmillan could insist that Ingram refuse to supply Walmart with books, and they can't afford to withhold product from Ingram.

Which manufacturers and industries exert total control over the retail process and use distributors?

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Physical object or not, manufacturers restrict the minimum selling price of products all the time.

Not in the US. Price floors weren't even legal in the US until 2007.

MSRP is a suggested minimum price that retailers can and do ignore at will.

The list price on the new Steve Jobs biography is $35, Amazon sells it for $18. What do you think would happen if the big publishers demanded that Amazon sell it for $35, but let B&N sell it for $18? Even if Amazon went along with it, they'd fight it publicly, put a big note saying "this price is set by the publisher," make a big stink in the press, i.e. they'd do everything possible to make sure the public blamed the publishers rather than Amazon. Do you genuinely believe that's a viable, let alone appropriate, strategy to save B&N?

(Europe is different; by law, booksellers are required to use the sticker price.)

Originally Posted by fjtorres

If nothing ese, the publishers can window the releases to support certain channels over others, just as the music and video industries window their releases.

Music doesn't window releases. Every once in a while, a retailer might get an exclusive track, but that's about it.

Video/film content is windowed based on broadcast medium. If it's a big hit, first it's the movie theaters (which are under pressure btw), then premium cable channels, then broadcast networks. Once they issue the DVD, it goes to distributors, and any store can get their hands on it.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Nothing stops the publishers from giving bookstores a two-week or even 30-day window when they can sell the books at close to list before letting them flow to discounters.

I don't recall hearing anyone do anything remotely like that. And again, the only way to do that would be to provide the bookstore directly and delay shipments to the distributors -- which runs the risk of ticking off a critical business partner.

What happens when a big best seller comes out, like a Harry Potter or Stephen King? Bookstores scramble for copies, and in 2009 Walmart and Amazon went into a big price war over who could charge less for a mega-hit. The publishers hated it -- but there was nothing they could do about it.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It is disingenuous at the least for the big publishers who created and maintain the volume-discounts policies that are squeezing bookstores, big and small, out of the market....

B&N is, without doubt, one of the largest bookstores in the US, and has been for decades. Where publishers offer volume discounts, B&N is already getting them; Amazon, Walmart and Target aren't getting better deals.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

....that are reducing shelf space for mid-list and back-list titles....

They're reducing shelf space because people aren't buying books in bookstores anymore. That has nothing to do with publisher treatment of bookstores, and everything to do with where and how people buy books, and the stores' attempts to deal with a changing marketplace.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The glass tower publishers *created* the current retailing model by action and inaction. They can change it whenever they choose to.

They did not "create" the current retail environment. B&N and then Amazon were much more instrumental -- and the latter didn't get much help in its early days.

In addition, they can't arbitrarily shape the market. That's like saying "GM could force people to stop buying import cars" or "Microsoft can stop Apple from opening retail stores."

Originally Posted by fjtorres

They are not victims, here.

"Victims," no more or less than any other company in a changing environment. That doesn't alter the fact that those changes are going to cause huge problems for publishers, retailers and authors -- across the board.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

If they should actually vanish they'll not be missed when the smaller, nimbler, ebook-first New Publishers replace them.

They won't be replaced by "smaller nimbler publishers."

They'll be replaced by Amazon.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The article is full of publisher spin and misinformation, the biggest being that the fate of publishing is tied to B&N, B&M bookstores, and the NY glass tower publishers. It isn't.

The big pubs make up roughly 50% of the business in the US. So yes, if they fail, that's going to punch a huge hole in the industry.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Rather, they are all the past.... Publishing will have a prosperous publishing future regardless of what happens to the old guard.

Y'know, for years people said the same thing about music, with much more justification given the shady practices of that industry. Where are we now? There isn't a horde of indie bands rocketing to the top of the charts; rather, music sales have tanked, and artists have lost so much revenue that it barely makes sense to sell records except as a promotional structure for a tour. And the indie bands don't make much on tour....

Like it or not, big players are a sign of a healthy market.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

They could still be saved if the publishers deigned to actually act and accept some small term pain for long term gain but they choose not to do anything but moan and complain.

Actually, "short term pain in the name of long-term pain" is precisely what they're doing with agency pricing. The final price of the book is above the Amazon-foisted $10/ebook price, but they make a little less. They're doing this to preserve the perception of value for new ebooks.

In addition, there's no short-term fix that is going to change the buying habits of the public. They can't cut off Amazon and Walmart. They can't cut hardcover prices only for B&N, without setting off retaliatory actions including anti-trust lawsuits. They can't force the public to stop buying ebooks or buy online. They can't force B&N to rip out the cafes and stop selling puppets.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It may not be a Manhattan future but that would hardly be a disaster.

There's nothing wrong with industries concentrating in geographic regions. In fact, it's often an indication of a healthy industry.

NY, LA and Miami have concentrations of commercial photographers. This is beneficial, because the commercial photographers all need the same resources: studios, models, professional equipment, assistants, agents, labs, clients. You can still do great work if you're living in Peoria -- but you're out of the loop, and it's harder to access those resources.

Publishing is the same way: There are lots of resources in New York: Authors, editors, marketers, agents, illustrators, the works.

Same with tech hot spots (Silicon Valley, Seattle, Austin); advertising (NY, LA); movies (Hollywood, Vancouver); autos (Detroit); Music (Jazz in NYC; blues in Memphis and Chicago; rock in LA); fine art (Paris in the 50s; NY, LA, London now)... the list goes on.