[Voice_of_Reason]

Originally Posted by hacker

Multitasking isn't THE answer, but it is AN answer to some problems. It can cause more problems than it solves in some cases, depending on your architecture and hardware.

Yes, but if implemented correctly multitasking is always the best option.

Originally Posted by hacker

<smirk> Get in line, I was publically extolling the switch from AMX back in 1997/1998 or so, and at that time, Linux was a viable candidate. Its even moreso now, but it will take quite a lot of development time on their part to make it work right.

Well I first spoke of PalmLinux July 1, 1996. Can you beat that, Homeboy? Bring it on!

Originally Posted by hacker

I still hope that they don't think their "move to Linux" will somehow garner them thousands of existing Linux and Open Source developers to do their development for them. It just won't happen.

True. But PalmSource seems naive enough to believe it will. "PalmLinux will save us. I know it will."

Originally Posted by hacker

Except that it has absolutely nothing at all to do with Linux or the underlying kernel running the device itself.

Except that almost everthing in Cobalt above the Cobalt kernel is expected to be used in PalmLinux. Nice try, Bubba.

Originally Posted by hacker

People don't choose their gadgets based on the OS that those gadgets run... they choose their gadgets because it solves a need that they have for the device (playing mp3s, managing PIM data, checking email while away from the office, etc.)

Yes, and when those gadgets can't do things (like multitask) that everyone else's gadgets can do, they choose the more competitive gadgets.

Originally Posted by hacker

Do you know what version of firmware and what embedded OS your microwave runs? What about your television remote control? Why don't you care? Because they do exactly what is expected of them, without any problems. The only time people need to know what operating system their "Thing" runs, is when things go wrong and they need to fix it or find an alternative solution to solve the problem. When things work, people don't notice them.

See previous response.

Originally Posted by hacker

People won't "move en masse to an alternate OS" just because Palm doesn't move to Linux. They might consider it when the device stops suiting their needs, but thousands of others who have never used a PDA before will find that Palm suits their needs perfectly.

See previous response.

Originally Posted by hacker

Sure, and BSD is dead and Apple is switching to Intel... er, ok, maybe not that last one <grin>

Stranger things have happened. Some people even say Michael Jackson might win his court case!

Originally Posted by hacker

Seriously though, the platform won't be dead if their move to Linux doesn't succeed. They have a HUGE growing market in the smartphone and kiosk arena, especially with their recent acquisition in China. Don't be fooled, there are millions of PalmOS licenses being sold per-year, and not just on the devices you can buy at OfficeMax or Staples. Don't forget about the OEMs like Kyocera, Samsung, Sony (yes, still producing PalmOS devices), Acceca, Symbol, and about 2-3 dozen others.

As soon as a platform/app/company loses momentum, the smell of death is upon it. It's very difficult to reverse a downward spiral unless a company is either a) very lucky or b) has leadership ***COUGH Steve Jobs COUGH*** capable of creating a cult-like following for its products. Anyone remember Netscape? Wordperfect? K-Mart?

Originally Posted by hacker

That is exactly what has made PalmOS the enormous success that it has been since 1996. That's close to 10 years of PalmOS devices out in the market. Without third-party support, your platform is dead.

There comes a time when a mature company has to start absorbing what third party vendors do into its own product. It's called evolving.

Originally Posted by hacker

Also, lets not forget how much they'd piss off the authors of applications that fit the niche you're suggesting. Let's say that Palm decided to incorporate LauncherX's capabilities into their main launcher (no offense to the author of LauncherX, Bozidar Benc, who died last year), including tabs. What happens to the people who want to buy LauncherX?

Tough. The world isn't perfect, is it? Those were the same (weak) excuses Palm used for years as justification for not spending a dime to improve PalmOS. Then they bought MultiMail and licensed Desktop To Go. Did users complain? And last I checked, SnapperMail, Quickoffice, etc were all being sold, while weaker apps were falling by the wayside. Survival of the fittest, Baby! Darwin was right after all. Wow. Maybe Microsoft knows what they're doing by absorbing the leading 3rd party apps into the Microsoft Collective year after year. Resistance is futile™...

Originally Posted by hacker

The key is to keep the interface as absolutely simple as possible, while keeping the powerful API underneath, exposed via the SDK, so authors can extend the capabilities and create a market for third-party software to keep the device market flourishing. If you piss off your developers by consuming their market, you're going to lose a LOT of users, and a LOT of developers.

Bull. See previous response. The key is a clean, simple, POWERFUL, FLEXIBLE interface. Rob Haitani understands this. PalmSource apparently feels UI is a low priority. (Oh, I forgot - "Rome" will fix everything! Guess what? Rome wasn't built in a day...) By the way, most users don't give a rat's arse about developers. All they want is to be able to do everything they need to do as easily as possible for as little money as possible. Scouring the Internet for the top apps/utilities in an effort to optimize their PDA is not the typical user's idea of fun. Palm seems oblivious to this fact.

Originally Posted by hacker

Also, there may be patent or licensing issues related to some of the PalmOS applications out there. Just because "Tabs Are Cool" in your opinion, doesn't mean that Palm can just start using them.

PalmSource would not lose a lawsuit over a tabbed interface or icons on a DIA. Has it come down to this now? Avoid improving your product out of fear of being sued? Please.

Originally Posted by hacker

Not everyone likes that approach. Do you have an alternate for those who do not?

Easy. Give users the option to choose which interface they prefer. Pick up a TH55 or VZ90 to get a feel for how flexible UI can be in the same device.

Originally Posted by hacker

Also, stop thinking with a Windows mindset. Not everyone wants a desktop on their PDA. They may think they do, but that's because they're confused about how they access their data. The important thing is their data, their documents, etc. You don't need to port Microsoft Word (and its horribly unusable UI) to a PDA just to view and edit documents. The same thing goes for web browsing, email, calendaring, and so on.

Likewise, you don't need a "Start Bar" or "titlebars" or windowframes or abnormally-large scrollbars, etc. to interact with your data. Look at how much power the iPod put into 1 wheel. With Palm (as with some newer window managers coming out to service embedded devices), applications run modal, with full context, as they should. You shouldn't have a titlebar, unless you can grab it and move the window around. If you can do that on a 320x320 PDA screen, something is wrong, because its a horrible waste of space, resources, and code to allow that behavior.

No one said anything about Windows. Tabs are not exactly a concept unique to Windows - as anyone with a filing cabinet can tell you. It's sad to see Microsoft-haters pretend that just because a design concept is used by a Microsoft product, suddenly it becomes Evil Incarnate.

Originally Posted by hacker

Simple is best, which is why Palm still controls the majority of this market.

Are you really sure "Palm still controls the majority of this market"?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/commen...ID=7788#106629

Originally Posted by hacker

Now here's a point I think we agree on. I've seen this time and time and time (and time and time) again with USRobotics -> 3Com -> Palm -> Palmsource -> Palm.

Reinventing the wheel continues to hurt PalmSource. Only now they've run out of both time and money. At least when PalmSource is bought out by Palm/pa1mOne next year they'll have more time to mess around shining sh*t.

Originally Posted by hacker

Part of the problem is likely due to attrition and turnover. If people keep jumping ship or getting laid off, passing code and projects to others to maintain can get overwhelming and ugly, especially if those people can't code. Look at how Palm jumped on the OSS tools to help embrace their developers, tried to "own" them, and rapidly dumped them when they realized they couldn't (POSE, prc-tools, pilrc and 1/2 dozen others). They're now on their... what... third or fourth kernel rewrite? And lets not even get into Protein, PACE and all of the other alliteration buzzwords that start with "P" here.

Don't get me started. I wish someone could tattoo the words "Keep It Simple, Stupid" on every former Be/PalmSource employee's forehead. Then maybe they'd think twice before trying to come up with yet another harebrained Rube Goldberg-style "solution".

TVoR