[Bob Russell]

Thank you for your post TVoR. And I personally want to thank you for the more polite tone. I've followed some of your other discussions, and while you obviously have a lot of knowledge about these issues and some very interesting things to say, I've also noticed that you have a very animated and spirited style at other sites! That can be a bit too harsh for the friendly discussions we try to foster here at MR, so we greatly appreciate your considerateness concerning the style of your posts here. (It doesn't take much for us to edit or delete a post here if it becomes harsh, because the tone of the discussions is very important to us.)

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

Multitasking is the way of the future because it removes constraints that would otherwise waste a lot of time. The advantages are most apparent in wirelessly connected PDAs, but even unconnected PDAs can benefit from multitasking. The ability to browse the Internet while downloading email, listening to MP3s and copying text at will to a text editor requires "multitasking" (in the simplest meaning of the word). Why would anyone want to do multiple tasks sequentially when they can be done either at the same time or without having to waste time restarting programs?

I think we agree here. It's central to the functioning of advanced devices. But isn't this all stuff that Cobalt can handle?

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

In practice, the ability to quickly switch between apps conferred by having a multitasking OS is the least important advantage over a non-multitasking OS. The difference in ease of app switching between PPC + WisBar and PalmOS + McPhling is arguably rather trivial. Where PalmOS falls flat on its face is in its (dis)ability to perform tasks concurrently. Constantly stopping and starting apps, disconnecting and reconnecting to the Internet, etc. adds a needless burden to the use of a PDA.

I think that we also agree here. In fact, Dianne H had acknowledged that even Cobalt still falls a little short in this area so far because it's the internals that have been the primary focus and the UI improvements that depend on some of that infrastructure is coming next. I'm interested as to why you think the stopping and starting of apps is a burden to the user, though. If programs are written properly, isn't that transparent to the user as long as there are separate threads handling the background work like internet connections?

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

For years I've argued in favor of PalmLinux - a Unix-based platform running Palm apps. Last year Ms. Hackborn berated me on another site for having the temerity to suggest PalmLinux was a good idea. Now it would appear her employer agrees I was right all along. Cobalt is merely a "baby step" in the right direction (towards true multitasking), but Palm/PalmSource has a LOOOONG way to go at this point in time.

A lot has changed over the years. Isn't it to be expected that people with vision are going to see valuable directions before it is safe enough to be right for a company to bet its future on it? I don't know anything about those discussions, but from what I've heard so far, I'm glad that we are headed to Palm for Linux. BTW, I know Dianne personally, and find it hard to believe that she berated you unprovoked! I know there seems to be some history there between the two of you, and that you tend to butt heads here and there, and it's very interesting to see different sides of a discussion, but please remember that all discussions here MUST remain polite! (If I sound a bit paranoid that the discussion might turn ugly, well.... I am! Because I've seen it go that way too much. So just be aware that things have to stay polite here. I don't want to lose out on anyone's thoughts, but I have to insist on politeness. )

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

... The biggest question right now is whether or not PalmSource can solve all of the issues around porting Cobalt to a Linux kernel before their market loses interest completely and moves en masse to an alternate OS. PalmSource has claimed PalmLinux will be ready before mid 2006. I'll believe that when I see it. Because multitasking will soon be an essential OS feature, if Palmsource fails to deliver on its PalmLinux promise it will probably be game over for the platform.

The move to PalmOS for Linux is definitely a challenge for PalmSource. Both making the move and getting devices rolled out with it. It's no walk in the park, but it's something they are committed to, so we'll just have to watch and see how well they execute. That's something that I asked Michael Mace about, and he said that execution is the most important thing for them now as they try to accomplish some significant things in the next few years. And they have to keep their focus and not try to do everything at once with their limited resources. But I really haven't heard them hyping Palm for Linux too much, nor promising any dates. They showed us the roadmap in San Jose, and they made it very clear what was done, in progress, and just projected. They also said it was a roadmap and a plan, not a promise. I don't see any reason to doubt them right now (they seem to have performed pretty well with the move to Garnet and the move to Cobalt, except for the lack of products on the market yet). But whether they roll out Palm for Linux in June 2006 or June 2007 probably doesn't determine the fate of the company. They would lose a lot of momentum and revenue, but I don't know that it's life or death for them as long as the existing Cobalt is viable.

I talked to one of the vendors working on a Cobalt smartphone, and was amazed to hear that it was actually better for them and easier to build the phone on Cobalt than Garnet. Their story was not about all the problems with Cobalt, but how it solved a lot of the problems that they would have had to do themselves if they had used Garnet.

So, yeah, it's a challenge to get to Palm for Linux, but I guess at the moment I'm a believer that they're on track and will get it done.

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

It's interesting to note that PalmSource - a company that supposedly has such UI advantages over PPC - has repeatedly failed to make any improvements to that UI. A tabbed interface (e.g. LauncherX) and rapid app switching (e.g. McPhling) are obvious advances to the PalmOS UI that are still left to third party developers to provide.

Yeah, that may be a bit of a blind spot for PalmSource, but it also goes back to the matter of their focus, I think. UI improvements will pick up soon. Even then, maybe not as fast as we'd like because of the huge market for feature phones that they are also after.

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

It remains to be seen if Palm will even provide an intuitive way to cycle between open threads in Cobalt. I've suggested a customized browser-style tabbed UI, or better yet, showing icons of all open applications on the DIA.

A tabbed UI would be really cool on a T5 or LD, with the bigger screens. But I'm not sure I'd want it on a tiny phone screen. I like the idea of showing the icons of open apps, but again probably only for the larger screen devices. How about simply an icon that brings up a drop-down task/app list, and the option to switch to it or close it if it's still running in the background. Heck, maybe even pretend that recently used apps are still running and also offer to close the ones that aren't even running just so people feel more at home with it!

Originally Posted by Voice_of_Reason

Now we hear talk of an ambitious UI code named "Rome". Why can't PalmSource just fix the bugs and polish its current OSes before heading off on yet another wild goose chase? The lack of focus and praticality that killed Be seems to "Be" rearing its ugly head again...

TVoR

You don't really believe that it makes sense to stop developing and fix all the bugs do you? I work with development teams at my company and we all would love the opportunity to rewrite systems or work on the portions of the app that are the biggest pain in the neck to maintain. But there has to be a real business justification to do something like that. I think that's one of the fortunate things about the work PalmSource is doing on Cobalt and Palm for Linux, because they have apparently had the opportunity to a lot of the kinds of "fixing" you are referring to. It's a rare opportunity, so I hope they took good advantage of it! And, while it may not happen soon, I'm actually kind of excited to hear about the next "wild goose chase", aka "next big thing" from PalmSource. But I'm pretty optimistic, and think it might just be really neat!

I'm curious... you seem to have some significant ties or interest or inside scoop with the BeOS world. Can you share anything about your background that will help us understand where you are coming from?

Thanks again for your thoughts. You're welcome to disagree with everything I've said, but just please be nice!