[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Harmon

What, exactly, do you think is being stolen?

Royalties from the author, among other things. You stated that "I will not pay for "owning" or "renting" or "borrowing" ebooks" and that you would break DRM if the providers tried to make you pay.

Now, think before you answer. "Stealing" is an actual word with a real legal definition. Violating a license, for example, is NOT theft. Stripping DRM for private use is NOT illegal, much less "stealing."

It is when you strip DRM to avoid paying for the product.

And with respect to "stealing," I think you are confusing it with the crime of theft. Although even theft has several different definitions, depending on the jurisdiction. "Stealing" is a catch-all term (even when used by courts) that refers to all sorts of impermissible takings.

See, e.g., this statement in Judge Davis's most recent opinion granting remittitur in the Jammie Thomas case: "[A]n award of $1.5 million for stealing and distributing 24 songs for personal use is appalling." Slip op at 29, although he uses stealing in the same sense throughout.

You should also take into account that in no instance do I transfer a file to anyone else. If I did, in some situations - but not all - that would be stealing.

That would also be stealing.

Please don't waste your time arguing with me on these things. I'm a lawyer, I've read up on the law in these areas, and these are my conclusions. It would take another lawyer to make a point that would make me need to spend any more time on that, and i doubt you are a lawyer.

As it turns out, I'm also a lawyer.

But my arguments will either stand or fall on their own merits. If my argument is bad, it doesn't matter that I'm a lawyer. And if my argument is good, it also doesn't matter than I'm a lawyer.

Arguments from authority just aren't very compelling when it's easy enough to explain the rationale. And if I can't explain the rationale, I have no business practicing.

But we don't have to go there. Let's stick to general understandings about specific situations.

Here, let me help you:

I rip about half my Netflix DVDs and put them on my iPad. I return the DVD and watch the movie at my convenience. What have I stolen?

Royalties from people involved in making the movie because you paid a rental price but kept the movie. The same as if you borrowed a movie from redbox, made a copy, and then returned the borrowed movie the next day.

I buy ebooks from Amazon, strip the DRM, and read them on my Sony 650. What have I stolen?

I don't think you have stolen anything in this instance.

I borrow a book from the library, strip the DRM, and read it on my Kindle a year later. What have I stolen?

Royalties from the author that s/he could have otherwise received either because the library would buy additional copies if the book was very popular (my library sometimes buys 300 copies of a new book), or else royalties that the author would have received when you or someone else became fed up with the wait time and bought the book.

I don't think you can identify anything that has been stolen.


The only theft that can take place in the digital world is the theft of the right to make money. That is all that copyright law is about. And my point is that what is being bought & sold is not the digital file, it is the service involved in providing convenience. if providers fairly price the convenience they are offering, they will make money. If they try to put arbitrary barriers in place so that they reduce convenience or increase prices, they won't. At least, not from me.

Most of this is simply a justification for you to do whatever you want.

Theft, in my jurisdiction, and in most jurisdictions, is defined as "exerting unauthorized control over the property of another person, with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use." (A few jurisdictions, including the federal, still keep the older "with intent to deprive the other person of *all* of its value or use.)

The statute further specifies that exerting control is "unauthorized" if it is exercised "in a manner or to an extent other than that to which the other person has consented."


[snip]