Quote:
Originally Posted by anjirlly
Thank you, Harry (and the other moderators) for the nearly invisible work that you do that makes MR an enjoyable virtual community to move about in. Many of us just show up and research or play in the setting, without perceiving or thinking about all the labor that goes into creating it, including Neil's hearty welcomes to newcomers in the Introduce Yourself forum.
I very much doubt that Neil was taking a stand about pre-emptively excluding people who don't list devices from joining the community. Rather, the absence of a device is a clue, especially when combined with a self-identification as a writer, that MAY signal a pattern of future non-participation. This pattern is likely to be far more visible to those who pay the closest attention, often those who are themselves putting in the most effort.
Such a pattern was invisible to me, until this discussion. Precisely because of the housekeeping that the moderators do, it's possible to easily avoid the authors' self-promotion forum, and I therefore have very little sense of their participation levels over time. But I trust Neil's and Harry's judgment in this matter, due to their very sensible voices, their roles, their length of experience, and the degree of care that they exhibit at and for MR. They are positioned to have a perspective that is not as accessible to the casual observer, and they are doing a lot of the work.
What I sense from Neil's initial post is frustration and a questioning of the value of spending his (very limited free) time welcoming newcomers who really have no intention of ever contributing anything to the community beyond announcing their book titles. Maybe I'm overempathizing from a feminist standpoint, but this would seem to call for sympathy with the frustration, appreciation of the past work, and brainstorming ways to distribute the workload more equably -- for example, by having those who appreciate indie writers' appearance in the forum do more greeting! (This is not a jab at anamardoll, who contributes in numerous ways.)
Unfortunately, the whole issue of who are "good" community members cuts a little close to the bone for many of us who lurk more than we contribute (like myself). This thread has thus raised many concerns that people not be excluded, e.g., because of an inability to afford a device. My default position is also to encourage inclusion, but it feels terribly lopsided to me not to also recognize that advocating on behalf of wide-open inclusion creates costs for the community that freeriders don't contribute towards paying.
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Yes, I really agreed with this very thoughtful analysis. I was interested in the original post, and as a long standing member of several other forums, I have to say that it does annoy me when people drop in for a frantic question and then never come back. Or, in this case, when it seems they might only be using the forum for advertising. That said, so far I've ignored the self-promotion part of the forum entirely, so it hasn't bothered me. I am also very thankful for the work the mods do, though, and as I have occasionally noted spam in other parts of the forum (and reported it) I'm particularly grateful that those things are taken care of so I can enjoy the rest of the forum without seeing a lot of spam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRussel
It must have been meaningful to at least some of us, quentess. Else why would you have 280k karma points. 
Seriously, for those upthread who claim not to be able to tell the difference between community members and spammers -- Get Real.
And Neil's OP was a very polite suggestion that the drive-by postings by new authors who didn't even list a device might be spam, though he was far too polite to call it that.
Now, if they want to post in Self Promotions? No one objects, I'm sure. But here in General, or News, or any other location? Spam. And non-contributory to the health of the community. And it's the healthy community that gives us this wonderful place to be. |
I don't even know how people get karma points!
But it does seem clear to me that the no device issue is just one marker of what might be a nonparticipating person. Coupled with other markers (perhaps the few posts, etc.) I would begin to suspect the same thing if I were around enough to notice such things. And yes, I'd be annoyed by it too.
That said, I was also initially baffled by the place where you enter devices. Do I enter what I think I'm going to buy? Do I enter my phone and laptop too? I've now got an ereader thanks to the help of people here, but I only list that and not my other apps. I could see how someone might put none simply out of confusion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditchleyportrait
you know what bothers me? not author spam.
the ppl looking for advice on which device to buy.
you can't figure it out yourself?!
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Actually, no, I couldn't. I had no idea what the differences between the ereaders were, and what they could do, and I didn't know which people found more reliable or not. To me, buying an ereader is a fairly big investment, so I ALWAYS seek out other opinions for such purchases, and balance that with my own needs/desires.
I wouldn't be a new but hopefully contributing member of MR if it weren't for the fact that I got roped in by the kindness and helpfulness of people in the "which device to buy" thread. I wouldn't underestimate how many new members that thread might bring. Some will never do more that ask for help there, of course. But some will stay for the community.
