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dmoynihan · 01-05-2008, 10:16 PM

First of all, I've got a lengthy post about all this, which some guy who works for other people told me was stream of consciousness... others have said was hysterical.

Second, while I'm not in any way condoning or encouraging anyone to download or otherwise infringe such copyrights as may currently be owned by Advance Magazine Publishers (parent company of Conde Nast) or its authorized licensees, I will say that they're not after downloaders; they're not that interested.

The thing started up when, rumor has it, Advance, which has kind of hit on hard times of late (they own newspapers and magazines), began to look for additional money through licensing certain film-able properties in their collection. Supposedly, they signed a contract with a certain large Japanese electronics manufacturer for first Doc, later the Shadow to make movies. I wouldn't know, and anything like that would be covered under protective orders.

Advance, which used to own Random House, but upon the sale of that division stopped caring about bound books, had previously taken down every other site having Docs and Shadows (and The Avenger). I'm stubborn, and when they finally came after me, it was Christmas Eve, '05, and I had a few friends, particularly if the documents weren't properly registered, as seemed likely. Also, Advance was probably hiding something by doing things just then.

Anyway, turns out every single Doc and Shadow and Avenger (and just about everything Street & Smith ever published... be aware) was properly registered, so I was, like, friendless. But there was still the issue of discovery, and the fact that I'd had things on my site for seven years.

So I fought, mostly because I will not be intimidated by the publisher of Men's Vogue. Of course, they won, but I did request a couple of documents, and was granted them. The punchline is, while the rights to Doc and the Shadow (and the Avenger), are currently owned by Advance, because of what's called "termination provisions" in the copyright acts, those rights are going to start reverting to the estates of Lester Dent (aka Kenneth Robeson) and Walter Gibson (aka Maxwell Grant), shortly. Film rights to Doc revert to the Dent estate on September of this year, film rights to the Shadow, and at least some of the books, revert to the Gibson estate early next year, book rights to many of the Doc Savage novels revert to the Dents later next year. There will however be a court case about the Shadow, at least.

Doc's a funny story, and the dirty secret of all this. Essentially, Dent kept film rights when he started writing Clark Savage, Jr., then, in the early '70s, after he'd died relatively young, some Advance agents went to poor Norma Dent, who was living in poverty in Missouri, and bought those film rights for $2,000 (in the early '70s... when Doc paperbacks were earning literally millions annually).

If you're bored and want to know more about copyrights and terminations, I'd suggest you google 'Captain America terminate copyright,' as the same lawyer who beat Marvel is now working for the Gibson side.

As to Blackmask, issue was, in court matters, Conde likes to, a, delay, b, lie badly, c, win on procedure. That's just what they do, and they choose their attorneys accordingly. The DMCA is such that once my server was taken, I never got it back (good to know), however the delays Conde put in hurt them a lot more (a lot more) than if they'd just let it go. I know that pissed off a lot of people, and the only thing that kept me from going postal is the knowledge that, for a couple of years prior, I'd been in Project Gutenberg's way.

As to Australian hosts, etc.--I don't know Australian copyright law.

I believe a publisher called "Vintage Ventures" is redoing authorized editions of both Doc and the Shadow. The agent for the Dent estate used to write essays about Doc's origins, though that may have stopped

I do have all the other books Black Mask did, plus 5 or 6-thousand others, (save for some of my oldest pulps, which are being slowly being retyped in India) at Munseys.com. Munsey's has a different look, and some people don't like the new layout, however the same protocol that currently searches the LOC for records on each book will at some point search up to 700 other library systems, depending on some new agreements. Proof of concepts and all that. Also with tagging I've currently got 12,000 categories instead of 50, and there's things like "My Library" etc. Page views are already considerably higher than Blackmask's, though the visitors and downloads aren't quite there yet, but it grows.

Munsey's (another pulp mag) was chosen 'cause I didn't have quite full control of the blackmask url for a while (do now) when we started bringing the site back. I'm probably gonna relaunch blackmask as a specialty retailer (print mostly) when the Shocklines guy shuts down. (And for extra gory details, while all the fun court stuff was going on with the Nasties, every print and ebook competitor of Olympia, which has been since launch the bulk of my sales... went under for one reason or another, beginning with Ebookad and ending at a Blue Moon... so I'll be around for a while.)

David Moynihan
Disruptive Publishing
http://www.munseys.com
http://www.olympiapress.com
http://www.silkpagoda.com
http://www.blackmask.com (forthcoming)

01-05-2008, 10:16 PM	#59
dmoynihan Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Kindle, PRS-500	Hey, guess this is my cue First of all, I've got a lengthy post about all this, which some guy who works for other people told me was stream of consciousness... others have said was hysterical. Second, while I'm not in any way condoning or encouraging anyone to download or otherwise infringe such copyrights as may currently be owned by Advance Magazine Publishers (parent company of Conde Nast) or its authorized licensees, I will say that they're not after downloaders; they're not that interested. The thing started up when, rumor has it, Advance, which has kind of hit on hard times of late (they own newspapers and magazines), began to look for additional money through licensing certain film-able properties in their collection. Supposedly, they signed a contract with a certain large Japanese electronics manufacturer for first Doc, later the Shadow to make movies. I wouldn't know, and anything like that would be covered under protective orders. Advance, which used to own Random House, but upon the sale of that division stopped caring about bound books, had previously taken down every other site having Docs and Shadows (and The Avenger). I'm stubborn, and when they finally came after me, it was Christmas Eve, '05, and I had a few friends, particularly if the documents weren't properly registered, as seemed likely. Also, Advance was probably hiding something by doing things just then. Anyway, turns out every single Doc and Shadow and Avenger (and just about everything Street & Smith ever published... be aware) was properly registered, so I was, like, friendless. But there was still the issue of discovery, and the fact that I'd had things on my site for seven years. So I fought, mostly because I will not be intimidated by the publisher of Men's Vogue. Of course, they won, but I did request a couple of documents, and was granted them. The punchline is, while the rights to Doc and the Shadow (and the Avenger), are currently owned by Advance, because of what's called "termination provisions" in the copyright acts, those rights are going to start reverting to the estates of Lester Dent (aka Kenneth Robeson) and Walter Gibson (aka Maxwell Grant), shortly. Film rights to Doc revert to the Dent estate on September of this year, film rights to the Shadow, and at least some of the books, revert to the Gibson estate early next year, book rights to many of the Doc Savage novels revert to the Dents later next year. There will however be a court case about the Shadow, at least. Doc's a funny story, and the dirty secret of all this. Essentially, Dent kept film rights when he started writing Clark Savage, Jr., then, in the early '70s, after he'd died relatively young, some Advance agents went to poor Norma Dent, who was living in poverty in Missouri, and bought those film rights for $2,000 (in the early '70s... when Doc paperbacks were earning literally millions annually). If you're bored and want to know more about copyrights and terminations, I'd suggest you google 'Captain America terminate copyright,' as the same lawyer who beat Marvel is now working for the Gibson side. As to Blackmask, issue was, in court matters, Conde likes to, a, delay, b, lie badly, c, win on procedure. That's just what they do, and they choose their attorneys accordingly. The DMCA is such that once my server was taken, I never got it back (good to know), however the delays Conde put in hurt them a lot more (a lot more) than if they'd just let it go. I know that pissed off a lot of people, and the only thing that kept me from going postal is the knowledge that, for a couple of years prior, I'd been in Project Gutenberg's way. As to Australian hosts, etc.--I don't know Australian copyright law. I believe a publisher called "Vintage Ventures" is redoing authorized editions of both Doc and the Shadow. The agent for the Dent estate used to write essays about Doc's origins, though that may have stopped I do have all the other books Black Mask did, plus 5 or 6-thousand others, (save for some of my oldest pulps, which are being slowly being retyped in India) at Munseys.com. Munsey's has a different look, and some people don't like the new layout, however the same protocol that currently searches the LOC for records on each book will at some point search up to 700 other library systems, depending on some new agreements. Proof of concepts and all that. Also with tagging I've currently got 12,000 categories instead of 50, and there's things like "My Library" etc. Page views are already considerably higher than Blackmask's, though the visitors and downloads aren't quite there yet, but it grows. Munsey's (another pulp mag) was chosen 'cause I didn't have quite full control of the blackmask url for a while (do now) when we started bringing the site back. I'm probably gonna relaunch blackmask as a specialty retailer (print mostly) when the Shocklines guy shuts down. (And for extra gory details, while all the fun court stuff was going on with the Nasties, every print and ebook competitor of Olympia, which has been since launch the bulk of my sales... went under for one reason or another, beginning with Ebookad and ending at a Blue Moon... so I'll be around for a while.) David Moynihan Disruptive Publishing http://www.munseys.com http://www.olympiapress.com http://www.silkpagoda.com http://www.blackmask.com (forthcoming)