[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

But it *is* a benefit. Plus Kindles have the options that most of the buyers need. But buyers also have other toys, so the next choice was no DRM or Kindle app. Did you notice that Amazon also sells iPads?

Sure. They are the world's largest catalog retailer. There's not a lot Amazon doesn't sell.

(And incidentally, there is evidence that the Amazon unit that developed the Kindle is working on device for other media, like video. No surprise: if it's in electronic form, it's something Amazon can sell you, and try to become the dominant retailer selling it.)

So Amazon can decide to stop being a retailer for a publisher and effectively destroy them? How is it then that the Agency pricing was enforced if Amazon has that much power?

How much power they have depends on who you are. If you are a small niche publisher, their power is enormous. If you are a consortium of 5 of the 6 biggest trade publishing entities, it's another matter.

The Agency Model folks actually cut off sales of ebooks for a bit, and Amazon had to capitulate. They were in a position where they could do that for at least some period. But they would hardly want to do without Amazon permanently. It was ultimately a negotiating ploy.

Amazon gets to "have their cake and eat it, too". They have to charge more for some ebooks (and make more doing so), but can point at the publishers and say "It's all their fault!"

How is that a way "keep costs low"? If the royalty is higher, then the cost is higher. Plus how many housewives have ereaders now and know about Carina Press? It doesn’t sound like people thought this thru.

Did you miss the bit about not paying an advance? Royalties are only due on books sold. The advance is the largest variable in the costs of producing a book, and the amount of the advance will be predicated on the publisher's best guess at the sales potential of the book.

If you don't pay an advance, you considerably reduce your risk in publishing a title.

And as for "how many housewives have ereaders now and know about Carina Press?" First, don't assume the market is all housewives. Second, don't assume the market is non-technical. Many Harlequin readers will have ebook viewing devices (which don't have to be dedicated readers with eInk screens), and there are an assortment of ebook publishers specifically targeting the romance market.

It makes perfect sense for Harlequin to try this. The question is whether they'll succeed, and that will be determined by the quality of what Carina releases. That will be the tough part, as attracting quality submissions when you aren't paying advances is not easy.

But it takes up shelf space. Of course people are still buying these books, it's what they see when they go in a shop.

Yes, so? Retailers devote shelf space to stock that sells. They have sales/square foot to be concerned with and products that don't sell don't last long on the shelves.

You seem to be suggesting that the shelf space devoted to vampire fiction could be allocated to something else, if only it would go away. Allocated to what? And would it sell as well?

No, people don't buy it just because they see it on the shelves. It has to be on the shelves to be bought at all, but the mere fact that it's there won't magically entice someone not into vampire fiction to buy it.

You are still not reading what people are quoting. Tompe was talking about Amazon extorting the publishers. I was saying that it isn't extortion.

I would.

Any producer wants control over pricing. Amazon was attempting to assert control by imposing a default standard price lower than the producers wanted. It was part of a larger strategy for Amazon: they want to be the defacto supplier for purchased ebooks. If you want to buy an ebook, you have to buy it from them. They use selection, pricing, convenience, and DRM in attempts to reach that goal.

Consider what happens if Amazon succeeds and has an effective monopoly on ebook sales? You might benefit from it now, if your device can display DRMed Amazon ebook titles. What happens down the road? What occurs if Amazon says "We have the majority of ebook buyers locked in to us as the supplier. We can raise prices as a consequence." I wouldn't bet Amazon wouldn't do that if they were in a position to do it and make it stick, and thought that business conditions required it.
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Dennis