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Originally Posted by Ankh
So, the day will come when a public library will acquire a copy of the book few years after its publishing... and will continue to offer it forever.
What I don't understand is how is copyright protection going to work for copyright owners in that climate. A new edition can offer illustrations, a more up-to-date foreword... but how much is that worth to a customer who can legally obtain (albeit time limited) access to the original through the public library? The effective duration of the copyright, the time when a title can be obtained ONLY through the purchase will drop down to a couple of years?
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I think the danger is not to the copyright owners in the current conditions. The danger is more to the libraries. At least under the US law. The First-Sale doctrine does not apply to ebooks. In fact to loan an ebook they need to make a copy, and not just hand the patron an existing purchased copy. So the copyright protection fully applies, even more so for them then then it does for a printed book. The Adobe drm server charges a per check out fee, it is does not take too much of a leap to see the copyright holders doing the same in the near future.
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Originally Posted by Ravensknight
Now that I would love! I can see it starting out regional, like New England for me. Conglomorate and conquer.
I just love the idea of info be spread more and more...
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The Philly Free library having its card available for $15 a year almost wordlwide seems a good start. They take contributions earmarked for ebook purchases now.
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Originally Posted by abookreader
Well, it is a license but right now it is a license that is vaguely limited to the lifetime of the buyer. Publishers have tried to take on limiting Public Libraries before but everytime they do they come out smelling like horse manure.
Libraries on the other hand don't die, at least not in the sense that people die. They at least theoretically can hold onto the ownership of those books for the entire lifetime of the copyright, and then well past. That book is never going to be lost, stolen or destroyed and the library will never have to buy it again --- totally damaging the revenue stream of those Penguin Classics 7th graders check-out for their book reports.
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Some type of battle of this is probably looming. And the thing is the libraries never have a book to lend, and probably no ownership for ebooks. Even if they did, they have to make a copy to lend it out (which the copyright owner has the right to control) which even the current rights they have with printed books, which are more then for ebooks, would not allow them to do.
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Originally Posted by Ankh
Public libraries of today are financed from taxes, mr ploppy. They are not book reading clubs with special discounts on borrowing for those who are willing to pay for the privilege.
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Which may not be true of the libraries of tommorow.
And this thead is more about tommorow then today right?
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Originally Posted by brecklundin
While that could never work and has been pointed out in previous posts.
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Why would it never work? It is already working today for printed books in some countries?
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Originally Posted by Ankh
Any change of the rules governing tax funded services can quickly become a political issue.
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It is funded by tax dollars, and is governed by copyright laws and court precidents. Seems it already is a political issue.
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Originally Posted by Worldwalker
Why should public libraries treat electronic books different from paper ones? They lend out paper books, why can't they lend out electronic books? (note: the only library books that physically wear out are high-circulation paperbacks)
I already pay for my public library; I should not have to pay a second time to borrow books from it.
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They have to, they have to make a copy to lend it out. That falls under different laws. They may never even have ownership rights to the ebook, have to wait for the court cases to come for that to get sorted yet.
Also I pay for my courts, yet I would have to pay additional fees if I wanted to use them to sue someone. Same with the DMV etc.. nothing says the fees stop at the taxes.
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Originally Posted by brecklundin
exactly...the whole idea of a library is to help ensure the free access to information and learning. We all pay some taxes to support them. Sadly in many towns the money first cut is for libraries. Our small town library is a beautiful space which could really be re-invented into something amazing, if the funds were there, but they just aren't and haven't been for far longer than our current economic probs here in CA.
Still it is completely against the whole purpose of libraries in the US to consider the idea of charging any sort of fee to borrow a book. And libraries simply can't budget their year if there would be no fee charged to the borrower but the library had to pay a fee to the author every time it was borrowed. Even $1,000/yr could significantly affect some smaller libraries.
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Don't think that is the whole idea of libraries, especially considering many libraries are not even open to the public and don't let their collections circulate. Also, many public libraries got into video lending. They charged for this a per item check out fee. This after taking taxes from the video stores to help fund competing with them.
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Originally Posted by Worldwalker
Y'know, for the "pay your own way" people ... the people trying to move to some unknown and untested future ... I have to wonder what they think tax
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Defence, and enforment of contracts and law enforcment. Even within these use fees should be on the 2nd item.
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of city buildings. What the hell should it be spent for, then, except for the salaries of city officials (something I've never seen a city official try to cut?). Why exactly are we paying taxes if not to have libraries, emergency services, roads, and help for those less well off? Why did our predecessors get it so wrong when they thought we should get those things for our tax money?
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The rest should not need to be spent on anything. It should not be collected in the first place. They got it so wrong, because over time orginizations will grow and seem more power. People also seem to think that things gotten from the government are somehow 'free'. So this is a way to 'buy' votes.
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"Pay as you go" has been tried; we call it the Middle Ages. It turned out very, very badly for 99% of the people. The people who built a world with highways and fire trucks, ambulances and, yes, libraries, knew what they were doing. Throwing all that under the (privatized) bus and going back to the Middle Ages would be a very, very bad idea.
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No it was not. In the middle ages you did not have ownership of anything as a common person. At any time the feudal lords could come in and take whatever they wanted. This is not a pay as you go system, this is closer to a 100% taxation system.
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Originally Posted by Gwen Morse
I think the pay pennies part was per-use, which can add up over time. If a library pays 5c a book, and lends a book out 20 times in a year, that's $1.00 a year. Now, multiply that by a thousand libraries, and the author has added a grand to their bottom line. The author sees a nice payout, but the library is only charged "pennies" per ebook lend.
That model would still wreak havoc on library budgets, but I can see that it would please authors.
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This is already the model with ebooks with drm.
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Originally Posted by Worldwalker
For the same reason they shouldn't have to pay each time a pbook is borrowed. They already bought the book. How many times would you propose they buy it?
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They don't have to copy the book to lend it out.... so this is not a reason.