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Old 10-23-2010, 10:10 PM   #411
Lady Fitzgerald
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrawn_aj View Post
If you say so.



Read the wording of those exemptions (#6 here). A lawyer would have a field day with it. Since we are not discussing moral quandaries (morally, I'm perfectly in the clear - it's the legal niceties that you demand be followed to the letter), the fact that the exemptions are vague enough to leave room for interpretation validate my point that (and I quote myself) "this is FAR from being the binary issue you make it out to be". That you refuse to even consider this debatable shows that I'm probably wasting my time (but that's alright - it's Saturday and I'm enjoying this too much ).



Yes, isn't it irritating when someone responds to points without quoting them? Then one has to go back and match things up. I agree that it is difficult to understand point-wise rebuttals in that case. Allow me to illustrate a better way:



"Ruhr?" (not Rhur) is a personal ejaculation of dismay (not found in dictionaries) at having to explain the relevance of that point. My apologies. I should have said "WTF?" or at least added a smiley. Still, I'll go ahead explain it anyway. You wrote "so what?", implying the matter is irrelevant. I maintain that it's not (when considered in conjunction with other matters, which leads us to point #2).


*sigh* Again, I shouldn't have adopted your method of point-wise replies. Here's the conversation in sequence:
Me: "2. I've not distributed the book to anyone else."
You: "2. Immaterial."
Me: "2. No it isn't. The reason why we have a DMCA in the first place should make it clear why. "

If this feels like a non-sequitur to you, I give up.

The DMCA was a response to massive distribution of pirated materials for profit. It is FAR from immaterial that I do not distribute DRM-stripped books. This fact alone changes the (alleged) violation from a criminal matter to a civil matter. In conjunction with #1, it establishes a lack of violation of the spirit of the DMCA. Of course, these are all legal niceties and I grow confused at the rapid shifts between legal-only and moral-only concerns in such conversations. Which one am I being accused at this point in time?



Uh, the advice under #3 of your list that I was replying to. "Do so at your own risk." Why was that confusing?




*sigh* Breaking the law is a crime (or misdemeanor, or infraction or ...). The DMCA says that without distribution, the matter is merely a contractual disagreement between buyer and seller and there are only civil remedies in that case. The only criminal offense is described in this section. Either way, as I explained previously, the idea that breaking DRM of a purchased book without distribution is a violation of the DMCA has by no means been legally proved, especially in light of the current exemptions.

Until then, either term: crime (which is flatly wrong) and lawbreaking (which is merely "alleged" at the moment as I've explained in great detail by now) is unworthy of "exoneration" (your word).

And I find your statement (#4 that I quoted above) deeply amusing because you're upset about legal semantics when it comes to lawbreaking. For a law as badly written as the DMCA, legal semantics are the norm rather than the exception. In fact, to belabor the point, the DMCA is the very personification of "legal semantic abuse" .

We've already established that there is nothing morally wrong about breaking DRM for personal private use. We're discussing here the legal aspects of the matter. Legal semantics are very much in play here.


I'll take the bonus choice - demonstrate its incorrectness. In fact, that appears to have been done several times in this thread by now.




Or, you just missed its relevance and its purpose (both of which were clearly, even verbosely explained within - it doesn't seem like their simple reiteration will aid in clarity). Maybe you wanted to miss it since it was meant as an antidote to your constant deification of "the seller's terms", which don't mean much when it comes to most other items in a common household.

As Ken noted:
"Generally, a seller's control over what they sell and the conditions of sale end once payment has been made and accepted."

Another example: most complex products come with a "no reverse engineering" clause. The intent and limitations of this clause are both well-understood. Unfortunately, people deliberately refuse to understand these when it comes to media (of all kinds). Bewildering.
Talk about rhetorical tricks. Either that is what you are employing or you completely missed my point. Your post was so poorly constructed I had no clue what you were talking about. And apparently you also have comprehension problems since I never said anything wasn't debatable. I asked what it was you considered to not be debatable.

As far as exemption #6 goes, it seems pretty clear to me. There was an entire thread on here. Look it up.

The rest of what you wrote is so full of misquoting, quoting out of context, wandering off topic, etc, I'm not even going to waste time trying to sort it out. I don't mind arguing with someone with signs of intelligence but you? I think not.
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