MobileRead Forums - View Single Post - Page numbers in ebooks for scholarly research?

Panurge · 11-11-2007, 12:35 AM

Bowerbird: "panurge said:
> I don't think a representation of
> the print copy in its visual layout is necessary,
> just an exact transcription of the content.

well, i can understand a desire for that kind of product.

but i have absolutely no interest in making such a thing.

_my_ target is the human reader in the 21st century, so
i see my job as bringing that old p-book into cyberspace."

I think that the recent posts have been getting back to the subject at hand, so let's clarify and sum up the main points. The questions under discussion seem to be 1) How do we identify the 21st century e-book as a unique object so that something on the order of an ISBN number can be assigned to it (there have been several suggestions so far)? 2) in the case of what we might call a "virtual reprint" or "electronic re-edition" of a book, which features are essential to preserve? and 3) what kind of markup language, format, or programming might accomplish these things?
In the past when books were reprinted, they were reset typographically for the most part, so that pagination was different. In some cases, the American and British editions of the same book from the same publisher were different--to the point of exhibiting fresh typos in one or the other. Nevertheless, if you referred to a page number and gave the relevant publication data (place, publisher, edition--where different from the 1st edition--date of publication), you could at least locate the citation. If the text of a print book is accurately reproduced in an electronic edition, that should suffice for most purposes. One needn't preserve the original page numbers unless it is important to refer back to the original print edition.
But in some cases, that becomes important. Allow me to offer an example. Lewis Carroll was fastidious about the placement of illustrations in relation to text in Alice and Wonderland. Nevertheless, few reprints respect his intentions. There have been a few facsimile editions or photo-offset printings, including an excellent PDF e-book version a number of years ago that preserved the exact page layout of the original editions. Most don't. Here the PDF format served a useful purpose. The ability to reflow text would not be appropriate in this instance.
So one must discriminate. Most books have illustrations that are placed as closely as practical to the text which refers to them, but often as not they have to be located at some distance elsewhere in the volume (particularly if they are in color). Hyperlinks surely improve on the original in that case. Although for Alice in Wonderland, hyperlinked images might be an interesting alternative mode of presentation, they wouldn't represent the author's original intention. In some cases that would be difficult to accomplish because the image is tied to the format of a print book. Example: in Through the Looking-Glass, when Alice goes through the mirror, the two before and after images in the original edition were printed in exact register on the front and back of the same sheet, so that when you turned the page, she "passed" through the mirror, as it were. Again, few of the many subsequent print editions of the book after the author's lifetime respect that feature.
Of course, I am speaking of a small number of exceptions. Most books do not offer these kinds of peculiar problems of reproduction. In the vast majority of cases, even the page numbers are not important in an electronic edition, unless we regard the e-book as a mere ghost of the original, not as an edition in its own right. What makes it an edition in its own right is some way of identifying or cataloguing it as distinctive or unique, just like a reprint or new edition of a print book.
I hope that I am being clear about this point and not merely verbose; it has already taken far too many words to explain the nature of the problem. But if we want electronic texts to be universally acceptable and appreciated, especially among future scholars or academics, then we have to treat them at least as seriously as we have treated reliable print editions in the past. I think that the discussion has generated some very good ideas so far, and I hope that they can be further elaborated and put to use in a fruitful way, especially if we want all these wonderful volunteer efforts to make free e-books available to all and have them receive the respect they deserve--as I think we all do.

11-11-2007, 12:35 AM	#109
Panurge Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 336 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Device: Sony Reader	Bowerbird: "panurge said: > I don't think a representation of > the print copy in its visual layout is necessary, > just an exact transcription of the content. well, i can understand a desire for that kind of product. but i have absolutely no interest in making such a thing. _my_ target is the human reader in the 21st century, so i see my job as bringing that old p-book into cyberspace." I think that the recent posts have been getting back to the subject at hand, so let's clarify and sum up the main points. The questions under discussion seem to be 1) How do we identify the 21st century e-book as a unique object so that something on the order of an ISBN number can be assigned to it (there have been several suggestions so far)? 2) in the case of what we might call a "virtual reprint" or "electronic re-edition" of a book, which features are essential to preserve? and 3) what kind of markup language, format, or programming might accomplish these things? In the past when books were reprinted, they were reset typographically for the most part, so that pagination was different. In some cases, the American and British editions of the same book from the same publisher were different--to the point of exhibiting fresh typos in one or the other. Nevertheless, if you referred to a page number and gave the relevant publication data (place, publisher, edition--where different from the 1st edition--date of publication), you could at least locate the citation. If the text of a print book is accurately reproduced in an electronic edition, that should suffice for most purposes. One needn't preserve the original page numbers unless it is important to refer back to the original print edition. But in some cases, that becomes important. Allow me to offer an example. Lewis Carroll was fastidious about the placement of illustrations in relation to text in Alice and Wonderland. Nevertheless, few reprints respect his intentions. There have been a few facsimile editions or photo-offset printings, including an excellent PDF e-book version a number of years ago that preserved the exact page layout of the original editions. Most don't. Here the PDF format served a useful purpose. The ability to reflow text would not be appropriate in this instance. So one must discriminate. Most books have illustrations that are placed as closely as practical to the text which refers to them, but often as not they have to be located at some distance elsewhere in the volume (particularly if they are in color). Hyperlinks surely improve on the original in that case. Although for Alice in Wonderland, hyperlinked images might be an interesting alternative mode of presentation, they wouldn't represent the author's original intention. In some cases that would be difficult to accomplish because the image is tied to the format of a print book. Example: in Through the Looking-Glass, when Alice goes through the mirror, the two before and after images in the original edition were printed in exact register on the front and back of the same sheet, so that when you turned the page, she "passed" through the mirror, as it were. Again, few of the many subsequent print editions of the book after the author's lifetime respect that feature. Of course, I am speaking of a small number of exceptions. Most books do not offer these kinds of peculiar problems of reproduction. In the vast majority of cases, even the page numbers are not important in an electronic edition, unless we regard the e-book as a mere ghost of the original, not as an edition in its own right. What makes it an edition in its own right is some way of identifying or cataloguing it as distinctive or unique, just like a reprint or new edition of a print book. I hope that I am being clear about this point and not merely verbose; it has already taken far too many words to explain the nature of the problem. But if we want electronic texts to be universally acceptable and appreciated, especially among future scholars or academics, then we have to treat them at least as seriously as we have treated reliable print editions in the past. I think that the discussion has generated some very good ideas so far, and I hope that they can be further elaborated and put to use in a fruitful way, especially if we want all these wonderful volunteer efforts to make free e-books available to all and have them receive the respect they deserve--as I think we all do.