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kovidgoyal said:
> To summarize your response,
> zml cannot support setting presentational aspects.
ok, _you_ don't get it. i'm sorry about that.
but i think it's sufficiently clear to _other_ people.
so i won't prolong the discussion. i'll explain it again,
one more time, but after that, i'll leave you in the dark.
because it's not really important if _you_ get it or not...
the _philosophy_ of z.m.l. puts the _locus_of_control_
for _presentational_matters_ into the hands of the reader.
so, the things that would fall within the purview of c.s.s.
-- in an xml/css world -- are found in the _zml-viewer_,
_not_ the file-format. if you look for things like drop-caps
in the _file-format_, you're just looking in the wrong place.
(and, because of that, you won't find them there. surprise!)
this is part of a much bigger _philosophy_ that it is far more
efficient -- in the long-run -- and a much better _strategy_
to put intelligence into our _applications_, not our _formats_.
the problem with putting smarts in the _format_ is that you
have to then mold the content to the format, whereas if we
put the smarts in the _apps_, they'll parse the raw content...
as before, this is far too big a concept for us to _discuss_,
so i'm only just laying it out, because we cannot "decide"
the issue here, that's for the real-world to do, but i thought
some lurkers might be interested in the "big picture" of that.
> HTML+CSS can support both structural
> and presentational aspects.
so can zen markup language.
the structural aspects are in the file-format, and
the presentational options are in the viewer-app.
> They give the author more control and more freedom.
they give more control. they don't give more "freedom".
some people will say z.m.l. gives them the freedom to
avoid doing the unpleasant (to them) task of markup...
it is those simplicity-loving people i wish to empower.
but control-lovers who prefer xml/css can still use that.
there are certainly some authors out there who want to
control the reading experience of their audience. fine!
i have no beef with 'em. really! if you will kindly notice,
i have said that here on these boards, i am one of them!
i want to control the linebreaks that people see when they
read my posts. so i make it so they don't have a choice...
but you will also kindly notice that lots of people resent it.
(ok, maybe only _some_ people, but they resent it _loudly_.)
this divide -- between how much control an author wants
to exert over the experience of the product of their art --
already exists in the world of e-books today. some authors
are happy to make their text available so readers can mold it
into whatever form the readers want. other authors _insist_
on using .pdf, so they can control what every page looks like.
i don't tell authors which way is wrong or right. i don't care!
what i _am_ saying is that, if you're one of those authors who
is willing to hand control over to the reader, i've got a format
that makes your job of being an author _much_ easier for you.
if some authors like that, fine. if a _lot_ of authors like it, fine.
if no authors like it, fine. it doesn't make any difference to me.
my paycheck will be the same either way.
> zml is forcing restrictions on authors.
wrong. it is true that authors cannot use z.m.l. to deliver
custom-formatted books. but many authors do not care.
if an author feels that the "standard look" of a zml-book
crimps their style and "forces restrictions" on them, fine,
they're totally free to go elsewhere and use another method.
> Indeed your whole attitude is that authors dont know
> whats good for them and you're going to tell them that.
no, my attitude is that some authors don't want to do markup,
so i'm gonna give them a simple format so they don't have to,
but can nonetheless provide their readers with e-books that are
both powerful and beautiful.
> If you want to encourage authors/digitizers to use
> only structural markup, a better approach would have been
well, thanks for the suggestion. but as you can probably tell,
i already have some very firm ideas about what i want to do...
so i'm not really soliciting your suggestions... :+)
-bowerbird
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